Ben W Bell
May 1st, 2002, 09:20 AM
Does anoyone around here know if there has been published the Vilani word for Eye?
Ben Bell
Ben Bell
tjoneslo
May 1st, 2002, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BenBell:
Does anoyone around here know if there has been published the Vilani word for Eye?
Ben Bell<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
magi
If you are really interested in learning more Vilani, come join the Traveller Culture Mailing list on Yahoo Groups. A very low volume mailing list, the files area has a spreadsheet with a complete list of all published Vilani words, plus the group has a couple of linguists interested in Vilani who can assist with any such translation efforts.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Traveller-Culture/
Does anoyone around here know if there has been published the Vilani word for Eye?
Ben Bell<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
magi
If you are really interested in learning more Vilani, come join the Traveller Culture Mailing list on Yahoo Groups. A very low volume mailing list, the files area has a spreadsheet with a complete list of all published Vilani words, plus the group has a couple of linguists interested in Vilani who can assist with any such translation efforts.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Traveller-Culture/
Ben W Bell
June 6th, 2002, 05:36 AM
This group seems to be restricted membership and I cannot access it.
Also is there a word for Seeing, as in Seeing Eye.
Also is there a word for Seeing, as in Seeing Eye.
Tanuki
June 6th, 2002, 07:44 AM
>Also is there a word for Seeing, as in Seeing Eye.
Assembling a Vilani phrasebook?
"This is my seeing eye Varger."
Assembling a Vilani phrasebook?
"This is my seeing eye Varger."
Ben W Bell
June 6th, 2002, 09:15 AM
No just trying to write a couple of articles for submission to JTAS.
robject
April 10th, 2004, 02:41 AM
This is extremely late, but better late than never.
The Seeing Eye: dakimashmagi;
(Assuming "seeing" is an inherent property of the Eye)
If 'seeing' is a temporal thing, subject to change, then the phrase would be: magi dakimash.
Finally, in Khal, the phrase is in Anglic style using Vilani words: dakimum magi.
My website has an older but serviceable Vilani lexicon and grammar:
http://home.comcast.net/~downport/vilani/Vilani_Lexicon.html
This page also has links to the Khal wordlists (the Trade Vilani Pidgin).
The Seeing Eye: dakimashmagi;
(Assuming "seeing" is an inherent property of the Eye)
If 'seeing' is a temporal thing, subject to change, then the phrase would be: magi dakimash.
Finally, in Khal, the phrase is in Anglic style using Vilani words: dakimum magi.
My website has an older but serviceable Vilani lexicon and grammar:
http://home.comcast.net/~downport/vilani/Vilani_Lexicon.html
This page also has links to the Khal wordlists (the Trade Vilani Pidgin).
Straybow
April 11th, 2004, 08:15 AM
"Seeing Eye" is actually a trade mark.
robject
April 12th, 2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Straybow:
"Seeing Eye" is actually a trade mark. Then I'd go for "Dakimashmagi"; seeing is the defining attribute of the eye in question. I might conflate the word a bit to give it more punch.
"Seeing Eye" is actually a trade mark. Then I'd go for "Dakimashmagi"; seeing is the defining attribute of the eye in question. I might conflate the word a bit to give it more punch.
mad13142000
April 13th, 2004, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by Tanuki:
>Also is there a word for Seeing, as in Seeing Eye.
Assembling a Vilani phrasebook?
"This is my seeing eye Varger." HAHAHA
Want to know the Gvegh translation for
"This is the dead Vilani"???
-MADDog
>Also is there a word for Seeing, as in Seeing Eye.
Assembling a Vilani phrasebook?
"This is my seeing eye Varger." HAHAHA
Want to know the Gvegh translation for
"This is the dead Vilani"???
-MADDog
Magnus von Thornwood
June 6th, 2008, 01:47 AM
So what is the proper Bilanidin for:
"The All Seeing Eye" (in a temporal and literal sense)?
And the Starship Name: "Imperial Star Ship Blue Smoke"?
And last but not least, if you would, "To Protect the Commonweal."
Gack, got tons....sorry.
"The All Seeing Eye" (in a temporal and literal sense)?
And the Starship Name: "Imperial Star Ship Blue Smoke"?
And last but not least, if you would, "To Protect the Commonweal."
Gack, got tons....sorry.
robject
June 6th, 2008, 10:46 AM
So what is the proper Bilanidin for:
"The All Seeing Eye" (in a temporal and literal sense)?
This might be "magi dakimash baasa".
And the Starship Name: "Imperial Star Ship Blue Smoke"?
Perhaps:
Starship-Imperial Dark-Blue+Smoke
Serimaddaga Ibuukibi.
Starship-Imperial Bright-Blue+Smoke
Serimaddaga Idibi.
(Note: "Imperial" is actually "dadaga", but I think the phrase "serimadadaga" is so common it would erode a bit)
And last but not least, if you would, "To Protect the Commonweal."
Perhaps:
Idaak irgesagek.
/Idaak/ "Protecting it"
/irge/ "having in common"
/sagek/ "goodness, beauty, truth"
"The All Seeing Eye" (in a temporal and literal sense)?
This might be "magi dakimash baasa".
And the Starship Name: "Imperial Star Ship Blue Smoke"?
Perhaps:
Starship-Imperial Dark-Blue+Smoke
Serimaddaga Ibuukibi.
Starship-Imperial Bright-Blue+Smoke
Serimaddaga Idibi.
(Note: "Imperial" is actually "dadaga", but I think the phrase "serimadadaga" is so common it would erode a bit)
And last but not least, if you would, "To Protect the Commonweal."
Perhaps:
Idaak irgesagek.
/Idaak/ "Protecting it"
/irge/ "having in common"
/sagek/ "goodness, beauty, truth"
Magnus von Thornwood
June 6th, 2008, 10:55 AM
Thanks again! CotI Geek Battalion (Language Platoon) comes through again.
Cool. Btw the link to the Vilani Study Group listed above is 404, and wow, this language is a RPIA!
I found the following and perusing it right now.....:oo: and I keep thinking I am smart, this place is turning out to be a nice reality check sometimes.
Bilanidin Resources. (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Grammar.html)
Cool. Btw the link to the Vilani Study Group listed above is 404, and wow, this language is a RPIA!
I found the following and perusing it right now.....:oo: and I keep thinking I am smart, this place is turning out to be a nice reality check sometimes.
Bilanidin Resources. (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Grammar.html)
robject
June 6th, 2008, 12:01 PM
I found the following and perusing it right now.....:oo: and I keep thinking I am smart, this place is turning out to be a nice reality check sometimes.
Bilanidin Resources. (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Grammar.html)
Those are my webpages -- enjoy. Yes, we owe a debt to Kenji for creating the Vilani grammar.
Bilanidin Resources. (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Grammar.html)
Those are my webpages -- enjoy. Yes, we owe a debt to Kenji for creating the Vilani grammar.
Magnus von Thornwood
June 6th, 2008, 12:10 PM
Those are my webpages -- enjoy. Yes, we owe a debt to Kenji for creating the Vilani grammar.
Awesome, so how much assistance do you give us Bilanidin noobs anyway?
And what is Bilanidin for "Noob"? :p
Thanks again, you will most likely be hearing from me again.....like now. :D
So, how would a guy go about telling a particular gal that he like really uber-digs her? In Bilanidin of course...and then.....*grins and decides not to press his luck*
Oh and your right about Kenji, now, what to get to express our feelings about the grammar structure....
Awesome, so how much assistance do you give us Bilanidin noobs anyway?
And what is Bilanidin for "Noob"? :p
Thanks again, you will most likely be hearing from me again.....like now. :D
So, how would a guy go about telling a particular gal that he like really uber-digs her? In Bilanidin of course...and then.....*grins and decides not to press his luck*
Oh and your right about Kenji, now, what to get to express our feelings about the grammar structure....
robject
June 6th, 2008, 12:33 PM
I may have to defer to G. Kashkanun Anderson for the one-liners for bars... ah that didn't sound quite the way I meant it... GKA is good with turning phrases I meant.
As far as expletives go, I know of a couple, and have used them on occasion.
/dam/ is from Anglic, and is quite thoroughly Vilanicized from the 2nd Imperium onward.
/kugganzir/ is a personal favorite. It means "holy ganzir!", where /ganzir/ is the "Eye", referring to the mythical Pit into the underworld.
There are also mythical names that can be expletified by attaching /kug-/ or /dam-/ onto them:
Alaaru the Swift. Damalaaru is colorful and can be satisfying.
Kuragan is a mythological Vilani god. Kugguragan is an expletive heard among traditionalists.
Duraamgar is a mythological Vilani sun god. Daamgar is a nice strong conflation.
Shikhu and Sakhu are the names of historic twins. So you might hear "Kusshikhu in Damsakhu!" when a spanner falls on someone's head.
Then there are the cross-culturally universal /megage/ "fool" and /daruuk/ "ingratiating fool".
Finally, there are odd Vilani-centric ones, like /dukam/, which literally means "unsorted", which is a statement of vast and general disapproval by Vilani, kind of like how your parents felt if they'd ever exasperatedly repeatedly told you to clean your room. "Pig's breakfast" also springs to mind, if you know that term.
There's also /raanku/, meaning "chaos run rampant", along with words meaning chaos like /gushii/ and /ziishanek/.
As far as expletives go, I know of a couple, and have used them on occasion.
/dam/ is from Anglic, and is quite thoroughly Vilanicized from the 2nd Imperium onward.
/kugganzir/ is a personal favorite. It means "holy ganzir!", where /ganzir/ is the "Eye", referring to the mythical Pit into the underworld.
There are also mythical names that can be expletified by attaching /kug-/ or /dam-/ onto them:
Alaaru the Swift. Damalaaru is colorful and can be satisfying.
Kuragan is a mythological Vilani god. Kugguragan is an expletive heard among traditionalists.
Duraamgar is a mythological Vilani sun god. Daamgar is a nice strong conflation.
Shikhu and Sakhu are the names of historic twins. So you might hear "Kusshikhu in Damsakhu!" when a spanner falls on someone's head.
Then there are the cross-culturally universal /megage/ "fool" and /daruuk/ "ingratiating fool".
Finally, there are odd Vilani-centric ones, like /dukam/, which literally means "unsorted", which is a statement of vast and general disapproval by Vilani, kind of like how your parents felt if they'd ever exasperatedly repeatedly told you to clean your room. "Pig's breakfast" also springs to mind, if you know that term.
There's also /raanku/, meaning "chaos run rampant", along with words meaning chaos like /gushii/ and /ziishanek/.
Magnus von Thornwood
June 6th, 2008, 12:43 PM
*goes and looks for Icosahedron*
"Umm, Tam....hey Army, Rally over here, Bilanidin Expletive plus!"
Thanks again and ummm, I got a question, brb......*cut, copy, paste*
:paragraph:The subject pronouns are quite strange to English speakers, in that they represent only the general type of subject, and its relationship to the object. Common subject pronouns include:
-K- Sophont(s) acting on something(s) of lesser rank
-S- Sophont(s) acting on other being(s) of higher rank
-B- Inanimate(s) acting on inanimate(s)
-N- Inanimate(s) acting on sophont(s)
:paragraph:Passives
It should be noted that topicalization of patients fulfils the same discourse function as use of the passive does in English: it allows highlighting of the patient rather than the agent of a verbal action.
Examples
1.
Leskhugash liraamgim Eneri. An air/raft hit Eneri.
2.
Liraamgim leskhugash Eneri. An air/raft (as opposed to something else) hit Eneri.
3.
Eneri leskhugash liraamgim. Eneri (of all people!) was hit by an air/raft.
Le-s-khugash: him-it-hit
le-: it was done to him or her
-s-: done by an inanimate thing to a human
khugash: to hit
liraam-gim: (an) air/raft
liraam: air/raft
-gim: agent marker
Am confused....help?!
"Umm, Tam....hey Army, Rally over here, Bilanidin Expletive plus!"
Thanks again and ummm, I got a question, brb......*cut, copy, paste*
:paragraph:The subject pronouns are quite strange to English speakers, in that they represent only the general type of subject, and its relationship to the object. Common subject pronouns include:
-K- Sophont(s) acting on something(s) of lesser rank
-S- Sophont(s) acting on other being(s) of higher rank
-B- Inanimate(s) acting on inanimate(s)
-N- Inanimate(s) acting on sophont(s)
:paragraph:Passives
It should be noted that topicalization of patients fulfils the same discourse function as use of the passive does in English: it allows highlighting of the patient rather than the agent of a verbal action.
Examples
1.
Leskhugash liraamgim Eneri. An air/raft hit Eneri.
2.
Liraamgim leskhugash Eneri. An air/raft (as opposed to something else) hit Eneri.
3.
Eneri leskhugash liraamgim. Eneri (of all people!) was hit by an air/raft.
Le-s-khugash: him-it-hit
le-: it was done to him or her
-s-: done by an inanimate thing to a human
khugash: to hit
liraam-gim: (an) air/raft
liraam: air/raft
-gim: agent marker
Am confused....help?!
G. Kashkanun Anderson
June 8th, 2008, 06:37 AM
I may have to defer to G. Kashkanun Anderson for the one-liners for bars... ah that didn't sound quite the way I meant it... GKA is good with turning phrases I meant.Why, yes -- now that you mention it. I am pretty popular with the Bilanidingi guga ... do you happen to know any?
There are also mythical names that can be expletified by attaching /kug-/ or /dam-/ onto them:
Alaaru the Swift. Damalaaru is colorful and can be satisfying.
Kuragan is a mythological Vilani god. Kugguragan is an expletive heard among traditionalists.
Duraamgar is a mythological Vilani sun god. Daamgar is a nice strong conflation.Since I suspect Duraamgar to be some kind of archaic warrior god (I have the name derived etymologically from "blazingly bright" + "assistant/shield-bearer"), swearing an oath against it might be regarded as particularly potent -- if not as poetic as the one against Kuragan.
Perhaps it goes something like:
Damalaaru: a child's oath. The Vilani equivalent of "rats!" or "good grief!"
Kugguragan: Strong but lyrical; almost intellectual. Perhaps something you'd say if you stubbed your toe in front of your great-grandparents.
Daamgar: Roughly equivalent to the Anglic "God da**it!" Not quite sailor talk, but still ...
Then there's burudak, an exclamatory epithet generally reserved for either extremely vulgar company, extraordinarily terrifying developments, or very, very heavy drinking at the local dive bar.
And what is Bilanidin for "Noob"? :pIn textbook Vilani: probably gurukarpu when the Noob is referring to himself; and gurukarshe when the Noob is being addressed by his superiors -- unless his superiors think he's a twerp, in which case it's gurukarpu from them, too.
There are slangier terms out there, I'm sure; but for now the above is good enough.
There are also mythical names that can be expletified by attaching /kug-/ or /dam-/ onto them:
Alaaru the Swift. Damalaaru is colorful and can be satisfying.
Kuragan is a mythological Vilani god. Kugguragan is an expletive heard among traditionalists.
Duraamgar is a mythological Vilani sun god. Daamgar is a nice strong conflation.Since I suspect Duraamgar to be some kind of archaic warrior god (I have the name derived etymologically from "blazingly bright" + "assistant/shield-bearer"), swearing an oath against it might be regarded as particularly potent -- if not as poetic as the one against Kuragan.
Perhaps it goes something like:
Damalaaru: a child's oath. The Vilani equivalent of "rats!" or "good grief!"
Kugguragan: Strong but lyrical; almost intellectual. Perhaps something you'd say if you stubbed your toe in front of your great-grandparents.
Daamgar: Roughly equivalent to the Anglic "God da**it!" Not quite sailor talk, but still ...
Then there's burudak, an exclamatory epithet generally reserved for either extremely vulgar company, extraordinarily terrifying developments, or very, very heavy drinking at the local dive bar.
And what is Bilanidin for "Noob"? :pIn textbook Vilani: probably gurukarpu when the Noob is referring to himself; and gurukarshe when the Noob is being addressed by his superiors -- unless his superiors think he's a twerp, in which case it's gurukarpu from them, too.
There are slangier terms out there, I'm sure; but for now the above is good enough.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
June 8th, 2008, 06:44 AM
Thanks again and ummm, I got a question, brb......*cut, copy, paste*
:paragraph:The subject pronouns are quite strange to English speakers, in that they represent only the general ... [blah, blah, blah] ... -gim: agent marker
Am confused....help?!I'd love to help, but there's too much there for me to zero in on with an answer. I get the gist that you're confused about the nature of Vilani verb construction; but can you phrase your request in the form of a specific question?:D
:paragraph:The subject pronouns are quite strange to English speakers, in that they represent only the general ... [blah, blah, blah] ... -gim: agent marker
Am confused....help?!I'd love to help, but there's too much there for me to zero in on with an answer. I get the gist that you're confused about the nature of Vilani verb construction; but can you phrase your request in the form of a specific question?:D
Magnus von Thornwood
June 8th, 2008, 05:38 PM
The gurukarpu put the nature of his query in Boldface in the above post...
However, to answer the question, in the above it gives -S- as a sophont acting upon a superior sophont, but the lists it as being an inanimate acting upon a sophont. So which one is correct?
And, GKA, get your own. :p Oh and come on, pretend I just now found out I could learn Bilanidin, and well, I could use to some help, please.
Another thing, is there a non- anglicized Vilani alphabet? It seems to me that if they use certain letter combinations alot, see the "aa", "ii", etc. that these often seem to morph into other letters, such as "w". Just curious and stillllll reading the whole of the Robject's site, wow.
Thanks again.
However, to answer the question, in the above it gives -S- as a sophont acting upon a superior sophont, but the lists it as being an inanimate acting upon a sophont. So which one is correct?
And, GKA, get your own. :p Oh and come on, pretend I just now found out I could learn Bilanidin, and well, I could use to some help, please.
Another thing, is there a non- anglicized Vilani alphabet? It seems to me that if they use certain letter combinations alot, see the "aa", "ii", etc. that these often seem to morph into other letters, such as "w". Just curious and stillllll reading the whole of the Robject's site, wow.
Thanks again.
robject
June 8th, 2008, 07:22 PM
There is a non-Anglic Vilani alphabetic order... offhand I don't recall what it is, but there is one...
robject
June 8th, 2008, 07:24 PM
However, to answer the question, in the above it gives -S- as a sophont acting upon a superior sophont, but the lists it as being an inanimate acting upon a sophont. So which one is correct?
Good catch. I suspect you've found an error, and the copyist shall be punished. When in doubt, refer back to the Grammar file. And if that's in error, then I'll have to consult earlier grammars to see how far back the error goes.
Good catch. I suspect you've found an error, and the copyist shall be punished. When in doubt, refer back to the Grammar file. And if that's in error, then I'll have to consult earlier grammars to see how far back the error goes.
Magnus von Thornwood
June 8th, 2008, 07:48 PM
thanks it was mostly curiosity...
so when and where is the new study group?
so when and where is the new study group?
robject
June 9th, 2008, 10:05 AM
thanks it was mostly curiosity...
so when and where is the new study group?
Kugganzir, I think that's a neat idea. I know that Mister Anderson is always quick to turn the phrases; I'm usually the sluggish one. Since you're the newbie, where would you like to begin?
so when and where is the new study group?
Kugganzir, I think that's a neat idea. I know that Mister Anderson is always quick to turn the phrases; I'm usually the sluggish one. Since you're the newbie, where would you like to begin?
Magnus von Thornwood
June 9th, 2008, 06:12 PM
I don't know, what do we normally learn first...
OK, that would be alphabet, but that's just learning to recognize the symbols...
Basic words and structure?
Am trying to wade my way through the Grammar Text and that's what led to the copy question. Still, see I don't yet know the basic words so I still have to work with cut and paste and learning the individual word's spellings.
Root words maybe?
OK, that would be alphabet, but that's just learning to recognize the symbols...
Basic words and structure?
Am trying to wade my way through the Grammar Text and that's what led to the copy question. Still, see I don't yet know the basic words so I still have to work with cut and paste and learning the individual word's spellings.
Root words maybe?
Magnus von Thornwood
June 10th, 2008, 03:38 AM
So, I was looking for info on Bilanidin cuisine and found the thread 'Talkin' Vilani', wow, nice pages full of Bilanidin correspondence. Now if I could only read it, some day though.
Anyway, I did have another question...
What would be the Proper Bilanidin for the following:
1. The Ancient and Illuminating Archives of the Venerable Line/House of Thornwood.
2. Novamani.
Thank you again, having a blast, wish I'd found CotI sooner....and where are the articles on Bilanidin cuisine?
I always figured it would be like a combo of Szechuan and Ethiopian (which is super awesome), how ever I don't really know. Though with the amount of weird ass things I do to my food, I might actually like Vilani cooking, but I don't know, no one seems to have done anything on it I can find so far.
Is there Canon/Non-canon books. articles, etc. covering the Vilani in depth and of course the cuisine...need to know.
Anyway, I did have another question...
What would be the Proper Bilanidin for the following:
1. The Ancient and Illuminating Archives of the Venerable Line/House of Thornwood.
2. Novamani.
Thank you again, having a blast, wish I'd found CotI sooner....and where are the articles on Bilanidin cuisine?
I always figured it would be like a combo of Szechuan and Ethiopian (which is super awesome), how ever I don't really know. Though with the amount of weird ass things I do to my food, I might actually like Vilani cooking, but I don't know, no one seems to have done anything on it I can find so far.
Is there Canon/Non-canon books. articles, etc. covering the Vilani in depth and of course the cuisine...need to know.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
June 10th, 2008, 06:04 AM
So, I was looking for info on Bilanidin cuisine and found the thread 'Talkin' Vilani', wow, nice pages full of Bilanidin correspondence. Now if I could only read it, some day though.Yeah, we had fun ... I still have some unfinished business on that thread that I should get back to sometime soon.
The Vilani verb-building script (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Verb_Builder.html) is a nice toy to play with, and very helpful in getting an early grasp of the language. Just find a subject and an intransitive verb, plug it in to the proper settings, and you're only seconds away from building your first simple Bilanidin sentence!
Anyway, I did have another question...
What would be the Proper Bilanidin for the following:
1. The Ancient and Illuminating Archives of the Venerable Line/House of Thornwood.Kind of hurriedly, but here goes:
Adumlar Dinerka in Sharkuka Galibukaarukgi Daarnuludak
In Anglic: "The Great Family (Clan) Thornwood's Instructive and Ancient Library/Databank"
Daarnulud is the most likely Vilani approximation of the name "Thornwood," I'm guessing. I count at least three phonetic elements in your name that would cause a traditional Vilani speaker to break out into spitting fits.
2. Novamani.If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, and considering the traditional Vilani opinion on such subjects, I'd say the closest approximation of the term would be laguziin.:smirk:
Look it up (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Dictionary.html).
Thank you again, having a blast, wish I'd found CotI sooner....and where are the articles on Bilanidin cuisine?
I always figured it would be like a combo of Szechuan and Ethiopian (which is super awesome), how ever I don't really know. Though with the amount of weird ass things I do to my food, I might actually like Vilani cooking, but I don't know, no one seems to have done anything on it I can find so far.Really? Considering all the pickling and fermenting that goes on with it, I always thought of it as a sort of bastard child of Swedish and Korean cuisine. Most of the opinion you're going to find around here on Vilani cooking is that the less said about it, the better; and don't get them started on the subject of Vilani beer. But then again, most of the people on this kasha barduka wouldn't recognize a decent meal even if a shugilii walked up and dumped a potload right over their heads.
Is there Canon/Non-canon books. articles, etc. covering the Vilani in depth and of course the cuisine...need to know.DGP's Vilani & Vargr (http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=849) has a lot of info -- although its an extremely rare book, very expensive to acquire, and is only regarded as pseudo-canonical due to festering Intellectual Property issues.
GURPS: Interstellar Wars (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/interstellarwars/) has a lot to say about the Vilani of the late Ziru Sirka era. I generally agree with the content (except for the language references, which are mostly garbage); but many folks outside of the GURPS community regard GT material as pseudo-canonical.
Other than that, there's Robject's excellent language site (which you've already found), and the Traveller Wiki (http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page) has a growing amount of information about the Vilani. I'm rather proud of the map I made of the later First Imperium for the Ziru Sirka page ... check it out (http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Ziru_Sirka)!
The Vilani verb-building script (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Verb_Builder.html) is a nice toy to play with, and very helpful in getting an early grasp of the language. Just find a subject and an intransitive verb, plug it in to the proper settings, and you're only seconds away from building your first simple Bilanidin sentence!
Anyway, I did have another question...
What would be the Proper Bilanidin for the following:
1. The Ancient and Illuminating Archives of the Venerable Line/House of Thornwood.Kind of hurriedly, but here goes:
Adumlar Dinerka in Sharkuka Galibukaarukgi Daarnuludak
In Anglic: "The Great Family (Clan) Thornwood's Instructive and Ancient Library/Databank"
Daarnulud is the most likely Vilani approximation of the name "Thornwood," I'm guessing. I count at least three phonetic elements in your name that would cause a traditional Vilani speaker to break out into spitting fits.
2. Novamani.If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, and considering the traditional Vilani opinion on such subjects, I'd say the closest approximation of the term would be laguziin.:smirk:
Look it up (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Dictionary.html).
Thank you again, having a blast, wish I'd found CotI sooner....and where are the articles on Bilanidin cuisine?
I always figured it would be like a combo of Szechuan and Ethiopian (which is super awesome), how ever I don't really know. Though with the amount of weird ass things I do to my food, I might actually like Vilani cooking, but I don't know, no one seems to have done anything on it I can find so far.Really? Considering all the pickling and fermenting that goes on with it, I always thought of it as a sort of bastard child of Swedish and Korean cuisine. Most of the opinion you're going to find around here on Vilani cooking is that the less said about it, the better; and don't get them started on the subject of Vilani beer. But then again, most of the people on this kasha barduka wouldn't recognize a decent meal even if a shugilii walked up and dumped a potload right over their heads.
Is there Canon/Non-canon books. articles, etc. covering the Vilani in depth and of course the cuisine...need to know.DGP's Vilani & Vargr (http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=849) has a lot of info -- although its an extremely rare book, very expensive to acquire, and is only regarded as pseudo-canonical due to festering Intellectual Property issues.
GURPS: Interstellar Wars (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/interstellarwars/) has a lot to say about the Vilani of the late Ziru Sirka era. I generally agree with the content (except for the language references, which are mostly garbage); but many folks outside of the GURPS community regard GT material as pseudo-canonical.
Other than that, there's Robject's excellent language site (which you've already found), and the Traveller Wiki (http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page) has a growing amount of information about the Vilani. I'm rather proud of the map I made of the later First Imperium for the Ziru Sirka page ... check it out (http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Ziru_Sirka)!
Magnus von Thornwood
June 10th, 2008, 07:29 AM
Yeah, we had fun ... I still have some unfinished business on that thread that I should get back to sometime soon.Once again the Dreaded Thread Necromancer Strikes again...
:devil:"Rise, Rise, Post Count Higher! Come Thread, Back from the Pyre!" *insert fave evil laugh here*
The Vilani verb-building script (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Verb_Builder.html) is a nice toy to play with, and very helpful in getting an early grasp of the language. Just find a subject and an intransitive verb, plug it in to the proper settings, and you're only seconds away from building your first simple Bilanidin sentence!Sadly it pains me to say that while I can write and speak my native language....uh, I got forgot all the technical parts... :confused:sorry, so what is a intransitive verb anyway and honestly the Vilani Verb Builder could use some 'help' files for us gurukarpu (slowly learning to spell the couple of words I got so far.) For instance, do I use anglic or vilani words?
Kind of hurriedly, but here goes:
Adumlar Dinerka in Sharkuka Galibukaarukgi Daarnuludak
In Anglic: "The Great Family (Clan) Thornwood's Instructive and Ancient Library/Databank" How would that parse out? (is that the right term, not being a linguist, I am not sure, but my reading on the Vilani Grammar Pages, suggests that I am using it correctly.)
Daarnulud is the most likely Vilani approximation of the name "Thornwood," I'm guessing. I count at least three phonetic elements in your name that would cause a traditional Vilani speaker to break out into spitting fits. Why? (see sometimes they are 'simple' questions)
If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, and considering the traditional Vilani opinion on such subjects, I'd say the closest approximation of the term would be laguziin.:smirk:
Look it up (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Dictionary.html). Tried the link but it kept timing out, grrr. However, it looks familar, is it one of those inedible terms? I am guessing that it ain't good. Though you'd think that the Vilani would be even better at such things than the Solomani, since just surviving on Vland would have required a better understanding of biology and it various disciplines.
Really? Considering all the pickling and fermenting that goes on with it, I always thought of it as a sort of bastard child of Swedish and Korean cuisine. Most of the opinion you're going to find around here on Vilani cooking is that the less said about it, the better; and don't get them started on the subject of Vilani beer. But then again, most of the people on this kasha barduka wouldn't recognize a decent meal even if a shugilii walked up and dumped a potload right over their heads. Hmmm, well the Szechuan was actually I thought they would use a lot of spice to cover the odd flavors, and well Ethiopian because of how most of the dishes are prepared. And what's the deal with everyone and the chunky Vilani beer, like the Bilanidin didn't every discover sifting and sieving in their history?
DGP's Vilani & Vargr (http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=849) has a lot of info -- although its an extremely rare book, very expensive to acquire, and is only regarded as pseudo-canonical due to festering Intellectual Property issues.That kinda scares me as I just found out on CotI that my beloved SOM is worth CrUS 75. :D What kinda IP issues, if it can be talked about even?
GURPS: Interstellar Wars (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/interstellarwars/) has a lot to say about the Vilani of the late Ziru Sirka era. I generally agree with the content (except for the language references, which are mostly garbage); but many folks outside of the GURPS community regard GT material as pseudo-canonical.Somewhere I should have a copy of this one, somewhere....
Other than that, there's Robject's excellent language site (which you've already found), and the Traveller Wiki (http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page) has a growing amount of information about the Vilani. I'm rather proud of the map I made of the later First Imperium for the Ziru Sirka page ... check it out (http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Ziru_Sirka)!Yeah, pat yourself on the back for that one, been done looked at that, pu-leez! It is groovy though. Reminds one that 4000 worlds never made it out of the Long Night.
:devil:"Rise, Rise, Post Count Higher! Come Thread, Back from the Pyre!" *insert fave evil laugh here*
The Vilani verb-building script (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Verb_Builder.html) is a nice toy to play with, and very helpful in getting an early grasp of the language. Just find a subject and an intransitive verb, plug it in to the proper settings, and you're only seconds away from building your first simple Bilanidin sentence!Sadly it pains me to say that while I can write and speak my native language....uh, I got forgot all the technical parts... :confused:sorry, so what is a intransitive verb anyway and honestly the Vilani Verb Builder could use some 'help' files for us gurukarpu (slowly learning to spell the couple of words I got so far.) For instance, do I use anglic or vilani words?
Kind of hurriedly, but here goes:
Adumlar Dinerka in Sharkuka Galibukaarukgi Daarnuludak
In Anglic: "The Great Family (Clan) Thornwood's Instructive and Ancient Library/Databank" How would that parse out? (is that the right term, not being a linguist, I am not sure, but my reading on the Vilani Grammar Pages, suggests that I am using it correctly.)
Daarnulud is the most likely Vilani approximation of the name "Thornwood," I'm guessing. I count at least three phonetic elements in your name that would cause a traditional Vilani speaker to break out into spitting fits. Why? (see sometimes they are 'simple' questions)
If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, and considering the traditional Vilani opinion on such subjects, I'd say the closest approximation of the term would be laguziin.:smirk:
Look it up (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Dictionary.html). Tried the link but it kept timing out, grrr. However, it looks familar, is it one of those inedible terms? I am guessing that it ain't good. Though you'd think that the Vilani would be even better at such things than the Solomani, since just surviving on Vland would have required a better understanding of biology and it various disciplines.
Really? Considering all the pickling and fermenting that goes on with it, I always thought of it as a sort of bastard child of Swedish and Korean cuisine. Most of the opinion you're going to find around here on Vilani cooking is that the less said about it, the better; and don't get them started on the subject of Vilani beer. But then again, most of the people on this kasha barduka wouldn't recognize a decent meal even if a shugilii walked up and dumped a potload right over their heads. Hmmm, well the Szechuan was actually I thought they would use a lot of spice to cover the odd flavors, and well Ethiopian because of how most of the dishes are prepared. And what's the deal with everyone and the chunky Vilani beer, like the Bilanidin didn't every discover sifting and sieving in their history?
DGP's Vilani & Vargr (http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=849) has a lot of info -- although its an extremely rare book, very expensive to acquire, and is only regarded as pseudo-canonical due to festering Intellectual Property issues.That kinda scares me as I just found out on CotI that my beloved SOM is worth CrUS 75. :D What kinda IP issues, if it can be talked about even?
GURPS: Interstellar Wars (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/interstellarwars/) has a lot to say about the Vilani of the late Ziru Sirka era. I generally agree with the content (except for the language references, which are mostly garbage); but many folks outside of the GURPS community regard GT material as pseudo-canonical.Somewhere I should have a copy of this one, somewhere....
Other than that, there's Robject's excellent language site (which you've already found), and the Traveller Wiki (http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page) has a growing amount of information about the Vilani. I'm rather proud of the map I made of the later First Imperium for the Ziru Sirka page ... check it out (http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Ziru_Sirka)!Yeah, pat yourself on the back for that one, been done looked at that, pu-leez! It is groovy though. Reminds one that 4000 worlds never made it out of the Long Night.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
June 11th, 2008, 04:33 AM
... so what is a intransitive verb anyway and honestly the Vilani Verb Builder could use some 'help' files for us gurukarpu (slowly learning to spell the couple of words I got so far.) For instance, do I use anglic or vilani words?An intransitive verb is simply one that has no object, grammatically speaking. In other words, instead of the basic Subject-Verb-Object (SVO) construction of a typical Anglic sentence, there is only an SV usage. Anglic examples of such verbs are "to die," "to sleep," "to snore," et cetera. Vilani sentence structure is different from Anglic, but the basic idea is the same.
Anglic is much more fluid that Vilani in regard to its verbs, however, in that most Anglic verbs have both transitive and intransitive ("ambitransitive") properties. Vilani generally likes to keep these categories separate; although ambitransitive verbs are not unheard of.
Intransitive verbs are also important to Vilani in that they are the only verbs that can be used to build adjectives (and in Vilani, most adjectives are modified verbs).
So regarding the Verb Builder -- here's how to use it in order to build a basic intransitive sentence:
Think up an intransitive verb and a subject (example: "to cry," "girl" -- i.e. "the girl is crying").
Find their Vilani equivalents (makena="to cry," guga="girl").
Plug the verb (makena) into the "Root:" slot of the Verb Builder.
Click on the little down arrow symbol on the "Subject/Object:" slot and choose the marker you think best reflects the relationship of the subject (guga) to the speaker. In this case it is almost certainly either "proximate human" (if the girl is in some way "close" to the speaker) or "distal human" (if, for some reason, she is not). For simplicity's sake, let's say that the girl is close ("proximate") to the speaker in some way.
Press "Build the Verb," and note the results. The answer you should have gotten was amakena ... a- being the verbal prefix marker for a proximate human in an intransitive sentence.
Now all you have to do is build the sentence. It's important to note that a typical Vilani sentence starts with the verb; but other than that, our task here is quite easy. Lay the "built" verb (amakena) out, and follow it with the subject (guga). And thus, you have:
Amakena guga.
"The girl cries" ... or, in a more typical Anglic construction: "The girl is crying."
There you have it! Now you can play around with a different collection of nouns, verbs, and relationship markers; and see what you get.
Tried the link but it kept timing out, grrr. However, it looks familar, is it one of those inedible terms? I am guessing that it ain't good. Though you'd think that the Vilani would be even better at such things than the Solomani, since just surviving on Vland would have required a better understanding of biology and it various disciplines.It's Vilani for "monster;" and no, their understanding of biology has always been quite stunted in comparison to the Solomani. This is because other than the food-digestibility issue (and the GIANT RAMPAGING KILLBOTS), life on Vland was fairly untaxing towards its transplanted humans.
Anglic is much more fluid that Vilani in regard to its verbs, however, in that most Anglic verbs have both transitive and intransitive ("ambitransitive") properties. Vilani generally likes to keep these categories separate; although ambitransitive verbs are not unheard of.
Intransitive verbs are also important to Vilani in that they are the only verbs that can be used to build adjectives (and in Vilani, most adjectives are modified verbs).
So regarding the Verb Builder -- here's how to use it in order to build a basic intransitive sentence:
Think up an intransitive verb and a subject (example: "to cry," "girl" -- i.e. "the girl is crying").
Find their Vilani equivalents (makena="to cry," guga="girl").
Plug the verb (makena) into the "Root:" slot of the Verb Builder.
Click on the little down arrow symbol on the "Subject/Object:" slot and choose the marker you think best reflects the relationship of the subject (guga) to the speaker. In this case it is almost certainly either "proximate human" (if the girl is in some way "close" to the speaker) or "distal human" (if, for some reason, she is not). For simplicity's sake, let's say that the girl is close ("proximate") to the speaker in some way.
Press "Build the Verb," and note the results. The answer you should have gotten was amakena ... a- being the verbal prefix marker for a proximate human in an intransitive sentence.
Now all you have to do is build the sentence. It's important to note that a typical Vilani sentence starts with the verb; but other than that, our task here is quite easy. Lay the "built" verb (amakena) out, and follow it with the subject (guga). And thus, you have:
Amakena guga.
"The girl cries" ... or, in a more typical Anglic construction: "The girl is crying."
There you have it! Now you can play around with a different collection of nouns, verbs, and relationship markers; and see what you get.
Tried the link but it kept timing out, grrr. However, it looks familar, is it one of those inedible terms? I am guessing that it ain't good. Though you'd think that the Vilani would be even better at such things than the Solomani, since just surviving on Vland would have required a better understanding of biology and it various disciplines.It's Vilani for "monster;" and no, their understanding of biology has always been quite stunted in comparison to the Solomani. This is because other than the food-digestibility issue (and the GIANT RAMPAGING KILLBOTS), life on Vland was fairly untaxing towards its transplanted humans.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
June 11th, 2008, 05:37 AM
How would that parse out? (is that the right term, not being a linguist, I am not sure, but my reading on the Vilani Grammar Pages, suggests that I am using it correctly.)Let's see if this makes sense:
[(A--dumlar) (Diner--ka) in (Sharku--ka)] + [(Gali--bukaaruk--gi) (Daarnulud--ak)]
a- (possessive marker, "attaching" it to Daarnulud) + dumlar "library, databank"
diner "to learn, grasp; understand" + -ka (adjectival marker)
in "and"
sharku "old, ancient; longstanding" + -ka (adjectival marker)
gali- "great, renowned; mighty" (intransitive verbal adjective "attached" to the noun, indicating a permanent or inherent state in regards to that noun) + bukaaruk "extended family, clan" + -gi (partitive marker, a form of the possessive case that indicates the noun following it is a "part" of it).
Daarnulud "Thornwood" + ak (possessive suffix, marking the noun as "owner" of dumlar, above)
Why? (see sometimes they are 'simple' questions)Simplest answer: "th," "o," and "w" represent sounds that do not exist in the modern Vilani language. And generally, people don't do well trying to grasp phonetic constructs that don't exist in their own language. Often, they aren't even capable of hearing it (the much-mocked ancient Japanese confusion over Old Terran English's "r's" and "l's" being a good example of that).
Anglic-speakers have these blind spots, as well. I remember spending a sizable chunk of my Old Terran Russian classes in my University days staring blankly at my professor while she valiantly tried to get me to hear the difference between two Slavic phonemes that for all the world to me just sounded like "eihw" repeated over and over.:confused:
[(A--dumlar) (Diner--ka) in (Sharku--ka)] + [(Gali--bukaaruk--gi) (Daarnulud--ak)]
a- (possessive marker, "attaching" it to Daarnulud) + dumlar "library, databank"
diner "to learn, grasp; understand" + -ka (adjectival marker)
in "and"
sharku "old, ancient; longstanding" + -ka (adjectival marker)
gali- "great, renowned; mighty" (intransitive verbal adjective "attached" to the noun, indicating a permanent or inherent state in regards to that noun) + bukaaruk "extended family, clan" + -gi (partitive marker, a form of the possessive case that indicates the noun following it is a "part" of it).
Daarnulud "Thornwood" + ak (possessive suffix, marking the noun as "owner" of dumlar, above)
Why? (see sometimes they are 'simple' questions)Simplest answer: "th," "o," and "w" represent sounds that do not exist in the modern Vilani language. And generally, people don't do well trying to grasp phonetic constructs that don't exist in their own language. Often, they aren't even capable of hearing it (the much-mocked ancient Japanese confusion over Old Terran English's "r's" and "l's" being a good example of that).
Anglic-speakers have these blind spots, as well. I remember spending a sizable chunk of my Old Terran Russian classes in my University days staring blankly at my professor while she valiantly tried to get me to hear the difference between two Slavic phonemes that for all the world to me just sounded like "eihw" repeated over and over.:confused:
Magnus von Thornwood
June 11th, 2008, 11:55 AM
I would normally try something slick here but I am slowly learning not to.
So, I will merely point out that I now have a notebook, (back to school time) and reading the Vilani Grammar Pages for now....
Up to Pivot Constraints, but feel the need to go back and study more. Trying to learn alphabet as well.....:toast:
Working hard. So thanks for all the help, but why can't the girl be laughing, is so much better than her crying...
So, I will merely point out that I now have a notebook, (back to school time) and reading the Vilani Grammar Pages for now....
Up to Pivot Constraints, but feel the need to go back and study more. Trying to learn alphabet as well.....:toast:
Working hard. So thanks for all the help, but why can't the girl be laughing, is so much better than her crying...
robject
June 11th, 2008, 12:04 PM
I would normally try something slick here but I am slowly learning not to.
So, I will merely point out that I now have a notebook, (back to school time) and reading the Vilani Grammar Pages for now....
Up to Pivot Constraints, but feel the need to go back and study more. Trying to learn alphabet as well.....:toast:
Working hard. So thanks for all the help, but why can't the girl be laughing, is so much better than her crying...
Pivot constraints is damalaaru hard. I'd put that topic off as long as possible.
So, I will merely point out that I now have a notebook, (back to school time) and reading the Vilani Grammar Pages for now....
Up to Pivot Constraints, but feel the need to go back and study more. Trying to learn alphabet as well.....:toast:
Working hard. So thanks for all the help, but why can't the girl be laughing, is so much better than her crying...
Pivot constraints is damalaaru hard. I'd put that topic off as long as possible.
Magnus von Thornwood
June 11th, 2008, 12:11 PM
Thanks for the warning, but actually I am going back and starting at the beginning of the Work, and using the old study technique of writing it all down as I study so as to imprint the knowledge deeper, having manipulated it.....i hope.
aramis
June 11th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Anglic-speakers have these blind spots, as well. I remember spending a sizable chunk of my Old Terran Russian classes in my University days staring blankly at my professor while she valiantly tried to get me to hear the difference between two Slavic phonemes that for all the world to me just sounded like "eihw" repeated over and over.:confused:
English has some 43 sounds of the 49 typical in the human repertoire. Russian has only 38 to 40, but includes three not in English....
The letters for which GKA mentions are И, У & Ы. (ee, oo as in boo, and a sound halfway between them)
The other confusions are for Ш & Щ. (sh, but not plosively, transliterated š; and a harder sh sound stransliterated as shch or šč.)
Х isn't in english, either. (The "German ch" sound.)
So when translatng to Bilandin, we can imply the B isn't quite our B, either... cause it was transliterated as a V by the ROM.... ;)
It happens a lot.
English has some 43 sounds of the 49 typical in the human repertoire. Russian has only 38 to 40, but includes three not in English....
The letters for which GKA mentions are И, У & Ы. (ee, oo as in boo, and a sound halfway between them)
The other confusions are for Ш & Щ. (sh, but not plosively, transliterated š; and a harder sh sound stransliterated as shch or šč.)
Х isn't in english, either. (The "German ch" sound.)
So when translatng to Bilandin, we can imply the B isn't quite our B, either... cause it was transliterated as a V by the ROM.... ;)
It happens a lot.
Magnus von Thornwood
June 11th, 2008, 02:07 PM
Thanks to my having a Mac, I can actually see the Cyrillic letters!
So, with all the other fonts on the board, and this being a Traveller site...
Why don't we have any Vilani Fonts, I know I have four in my Font Book right now, including Bilanidin, Vilani Serif, Vilani Standard and Vilani Headline (which seems to be a variant or the same font as Bilanidin)?
Surely I am not the only one, right? *looks around hopefully*
So, with all the other fonts on the board, and this being a Traveller site...
Why don't we have any Vilani Fonts, I know I have four in my Font Book right now, including Bilanidin, Vilani Serif, Vilani Standard and Vilani Headline (which seems to be a variant or the same font as Bilanidin)?
Surely I am not the only one, right? *looks around hopefully*
aramis
June 11th, 2008, 03:55 PM
Partly because it would require getting unicode fonts done. And then getting them assigned to a unicode range.
Magnus von Thornwood
June 11th, 2008, 04:54 PM
Partly because it would require getting unicode fonts done. And then getting them assigned to a unicode range.
*pretends that he understood that last*
Anything I can do, hell I only work Fifthday to Sevenday so, if it's some goofy transcription work, I could do that.
OTOH, I have only limited, ok, very limited coding experience.
Besides, I suppose it's only a cute flavor issue only...speaking of when can I get my site subscription, dangit?
*pretends that he understood that last*
Anything I can do, hell I only work Fifthday to Sevenday so, if it's some goofy transcription work, I could do that.
OTOH, I have only limited, ok, very limited coding experience.
Besides, I suppose it's only a cute flavor issue only...speaking of when can I get my site subscription, dangit?
aramis
June 12th, 2008, 12:52 AM
Unicode, encoded in UTF-8, is how (most of) the net does multiple languages. It uses a 4byte character set (16^4) or larger, encoded in 7bit text (0 to 127=128 characters, essentially just the standard keyboard with shift key and the control characters).
It includes all the standard 7bit latin, plus assigns ranges for accented latin (128 to 256), and each major character set. The range for cyrillic, for example, is abut 128 characters... Cyril's own system had only 45, which double to 90 for upper and lower case... and includes a few odd characters no longer used, a few used in one or two cyrllic languages, and some accented characters.
It's not hard to make a unicode font.
But, in order to keep things sane, there is a central registry for custom unicode systems, and I've not looked into HOW the registry works.
Now, if someone emails me (1) a graphic of the Bilandin font labeled in latin for sound, and (2) a good TTF or PS Bilandin font, and (3) the needed permission from the font's originator, I can probably pull together both a font and keyboard for MacOS, as I do have the needed tools. I'm not up for redrawing characters, tho'.... As to getting it registered, that's another matter.
Further, if unregistered or improperly labelled, persons looking at fonts in the custom ranges may see whatever is encoded in that range on their system, if anything, for example, linear-A pictograms or Ancient Hebrew....
It includes all the standard 7bit latin, plus assigns ranges for accented latin (128 to 256), and each major character set. The range for cyrillic, for example, is abut 128 characters... Cyril's own system had only 45, which double to 90 for upper and lower case... and includes a few odd characters no longer used, a few used in one or two cyrllic languages, and some accented characters.
It's not hard to make a unicode font.
But, in order to keep things sane, there is a central registry for custom unicode systems, and I've not looked into HOW the registry works.
Now, if someone emails me (1) a graphic of the Bilandin font labeled in latin for sound, and (2) a good TTF or PS Bilandin font, and (3) the needed permission from the font's originator, I can probably pull together both a font and keyboard for MacOS, as I do have the needed tools. I'm not up for redrawing characters, tho'.... As to getting it registered, that's another matter.
Further, if unregistered or improperly labelled, persons looking at fonts in the custom ranges may see whatever is encoded in that range on their system, if anything, for example, linear-A pictograms or Ancient Hebrew....
G. Kashkanun Anderson
June 12th, 2008, 03:26 AM
The letters for which GKA mentions are И, У & Ы. (ee, oo as in boo, and a sound halfway between them)Yep. Those are exactly the problem sounds to which I was referring.
The other confusions are for Ш & Щ. (sh, but not plosively, transliterated š; and a harder sh sound stransliterated as shch or šč.)Kugganzir! I had forgotten all about those two. Yeah, I chewed up a lot of class time trying to get my ears and tongue to cooperate on those sounds, as well.
So when translatng to Bilandin, we can imply the B isn't quite our B, either... cause it was transliterated as a V by the ROM.... ;)It's a less "complete" 'B' than the Anglic in my book, which can sound somewhat like a 'V', depending on one's own personal phonetic background. I liken it to the kind of 'B' that usually comes out when the weather's too cold for your mouth to work properly (about 20 below or so).:rolleyes:
The other confusions are for Ш & Щ. (sh, but not plosively, transliterated š; and a harder sh sound stransliterated as shch or šč.)Kugganzir! I had forgotten all about those two. Yeah, I chewed up a lot of class time trying to get my ears and tongue to cooperate on those sounds, as well.
So when translatng to Bilandin, we can imply the B isn't quite our B, either... cause it was transliterated as a V by the ROM.... ;)It's a less "complete" 'B' than the Anglic in my book, which can sound somewhat like a 'V', depending on one's own personal phonetic background. I liken it to the kind of 'B' that usually comes out when the weather's too cold for your mouth to work properly (about 20 below or so).:rolleyes:
G. Kashkanun Anderson
June 12th, 2008, 04:58 AM
Thanks to my having a Mac, I can actually see the Cyrillic letters!Come down off that horse, boy. I can see those Russkie letters just fine on my plain Jane Windoze box, thank you very much.;)
Why don't we have any Vilani Fonts, I know I have four in my Font Book right now, including Bilanidin, Vilani Serif, Vilani Standard and Vilani Headline (which seems to be a variant or the same font as Bilanidin)?
Surely I am not the only one, right? *looks around hopefully*My opinion on the Bilanidin/Vilani collection of fonts has always been a great big "meh." I regard it as a kluge, since it's basically just an alien-looking transliteration of the same-old, same-old Anglic/Roman alphabet.
True Vilani is written in ruuraak -- which is an abugida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abugida), not an alphabet. At least I'm pretty sure it is (it might be a more standard-issue syllabary); unfortunately, the only information I can find about it is a brief sample buried in a corner (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.html) over on Robject's language site. It might be possible to reconstruct a complete symbol collection based just on the sample provided; but it would be much easier if I could just find someplace where all the symbols and diacritics are assembled in one collection.
Why don't we have any Vilani Fonts, I know I have four in my Font Book right now, including Bilanidin, Vilani Serif, Vilani Standard and Vilani Headline (which seems to be a variant or the same font as Bilanidin)?
Surely I am not the only one, right? *looks around hopefully*My opinion on the Bilanidin/Vilani collection of fonts has always been a great big "meh." I regard it as a kluge, since it's basically just an alien-looking transliteration of the same-old, same-old Anglic/Roman alphabet.
True Vilani is written in ruuraak -- which is an abugida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abugida), not an alphabet. At least I'm pretty sure it is (it might be a more standard-issue syllabary); unfortunately, the only information I can find about it is a brief sample buried in a corner (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.html) over on Robject's language site. It might be possible to reconstruct a complete symbol collection based just on the sample provided; but it would be much easier if I could just find someplace where all the symbols and diacritics are assembled in one collection.
aramis
June 12th, 2008, 11:21 AM
And it is fairly simple (albeit time consuming) to make that work easily on mac, and to set it up with kerning pairs to ligatures.
robject
June 12th, 2008, 12:18 PM
True Vilani is written in ruuraak -- which is an abugida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abugida), not an alphabet. At least I'm pretty sure it is (it might be a more standard-issue syllabary); unfortunately, the only information I can find about it is a brief sample buried in a corner (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.html) over on Robject's language site. It might be possible to reconstruct a complete symbol collection based just on the sample provided; but it would be much easier if I could just find someplace where all the symbols and diacritics are assembled in one collection.
Okay then... I've uploaded a few post-2003 Vilani fonts.
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/fonts/
VilaniBold, VilaniSerif, and VilaniStd are alphabetic.
The VilaniRuuraak font is really a jamo alphabet. For all I know the "real" Ruuraak or Ruuraakh truly is an abugida. I started out with a syllabary, and Marc gave some suggestions, and I did my best to create the font.
The first trick that takes some learning is that consonants in front of a vowel are typed in UPPERCASE, and consonants following a vowel are typed in lowercase. This creates a (more or less) layered effect, as the syllable is created.
The second trick is that the "extra" keys are as follows: AA is on the 'O' key, UU is on the 'W' key, and II is on the 'J' key. SH uses the 'X' key, and KH uses the 'H' key. The 'V' key is the Vilani 'eclipse' sign. There's an additional character on '=', and the backtick character (`) is the Vilani syllable /gim/ (handy for marking the subject of a sentence, perhaps).
Here's an example of how to write "kugganzir" with the font.
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/fonts/kugganzir_ruurak.png
A nice effect is that the parallel centerlines occasionally run through more than one syllable.
The style is ugly and blocky; I copied the original DGP Bilanidin Bold style. I think it needs to look lighter.
I also have a page of Vilani ideograms on paper, not installed as a font. Marc's understandably not involved in that kind of thing.
Okay then... I've uploaded a few post-2003 Vilani fonts.
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/fonts/
VilaniBold, VilaniSerif, and VilaniStd are alphabetic.
The VilaniRuuraak font is really a jamo alphabet. For all I know the "real" Ruuraak or Ruuraakh truly is an abugida. I started out with a syllabary, and Marc gave some suggestions, and I did my best to create the font.
The first trick that takes some learning is that consonants in front of a vowel are typed in UPPERCASE, and consonants following a vowel are typed in lowercase. This creates a (more or less) layered effect, as the syllable is created.
The second trick is that the "extra" keys are as follows: AA is on the 'O' key, UU is on the 'W' key, and II is on the 'J' key. SH uses the 'X' key, and KH uses the 'H' key. The 'V' key is the Vilani 'eclipse' sign. There's an additional character on '=', and the backtick character (`) is the Vilani syllable /gim/ (handy for marking the subject of a sentence, perhaps).
Here's an example of how to write "kugganzir" with the font.
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/fonts/kugganzir_ruurak.png
A nice effect is that the parallel centerlines occasionally run through more than one syllable.
The style is ugly and blocky; I copied the original DGP Bilanidin Bold style. I think it needs to look lighter.
I also have a page of Vilani ideograms on paper, not installed as a font. Marc's understandably not involved in that kind of thing.
Magnus von Thornwood
June 12th, 2008, 08:50 PM
This stuff is awesome! Thanks again for all the geek flavor. :D
Magnus von Thornwood
July 3rd, 2008, 03:26 AM
What's a really good exclamation of Joy and Happiness in Bilanidin?
Yours in Study,
the Gurukarpu.
Yours in Study,
the Gurukarpu.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
July 3rd, 2008, 04:15 AM
Here's one from my growing collection of Vilani neologisms:
Kishariin! Ki.sha.riin! (excl)Wonderful! Excellent! (from ki [distal nonhuman prefix] + shar "to be abundant" + iin [exclamatory postclitic] lit. "the thing is abundant!") It's use is also paralleled in the ancient Terran cry of "Eureka!"
Geshiren! Ge.shi.ren! (n)A variant of kishariin (see above). Also a place name (see below).
I came up with this one last fall, over on the GURPS Traveller boards. Someone was fleshing out his idea of a Vilani legend about a destination world full of enchantment, wealth, and civility somewhere out in Trojan Reach sector (or perhaps beyond). Sort of like an outer space version of El Dorado or Shangri-la.
He named this place Geshiren. And on a whim (and because all of a sudden one of my hobbies is now constructing etymologies of Vilani terminologies), I tweaked it until I came up with kishariin, and submitted it as a possible root to the concept.
Ultimately, the GURPS'ers didn't really give a damn about my goofy obsession; and I can't really say I blame them for it. But I still liked the word (and the concept), and so I've kept it in my personal collection.
Kishariin! Ki.sha.riin! (excl)Wonderful! Excellent! (from ki [distal nonhuman prefix] + shar "to be abundant" + iin [exclamatory postclitic] lit. "the thing is abundant!") It's use is also paralleled in the ancient Terran cry of "Eureka!"
Geshiren! Ge.shi.ren! (n)A variant of kishariin (see above). Also a place name (see below).
I came up with this one last fall, over on the GURPS Traveller boards. Someone was fleshing out his idea of a Vilani legend about a destination world full of enchantment, wealth, and civility somewhere out in Trojan Reach sector (or perhaps beyond). Sort of like an outer space version of El Dorado or Shangri-la.
He named this place Geshiren. And on a whim (and because all of a sudden one of my hobbies is now constructing etymologies of Vilani terminologies), I tweaked it until I came up with kishariin, and submitted it as a possible root to the concept.
Ultimately, the GURPS'ers didn't really give a damn about my goofy obsession; and I can't really say I blame them for it. But I still liked the word (and the concept), and so I've kept it in my personal collection.
Magnus von Thornwood
July 3rd, 2008, 05:35 AM
Rock on! This helps a lot, as I am trying still to use the Langauge.
And sorry, I haven't had a chance yet to print out all the various docs for real study and been busy all over these days....ah the life of an Adventurer/Traveller, though no Starship yet...*keeps hoping*
And sorry, I haven't had a chance yet to print out all the various docs for real study and been busy all over these days....ah the life of an Adventurer/Traveller, though no Starship yet...*keeps hoping*
Magnus von Thornwood
July 16th, 2008, 11:15 PM
king of the gurukarpu maybe....:D
And back in effect with another annoying question or six...
1) What would be the proper Bilanidin for: Thornwood Holdings Group? Although it's obviously is not that easy...so here's the additional information...
This is the overall Famili Holding Company established, well back in the Rule of Man. It covers all the famili investments and such. For instance Thornwood Enterprises Unlimited, LIC is mostly Magnus' Personal Company and they specialize in Exotic Biologicals and Custom Memory Systems, but do invest in other Enterprises, thus the Unlimited part.
The Daarnulud Holdings Group or what ever would be the proper Vilani terms for the Group that has it tentacles in all the Famili Biz.
Also, as I am now a Starship's Master are there any other rituals besides dimming the lights pre-jump that I should be aware of. Serimadadaga Ibuukibi is up and running and I need to know the Proper Vilani Spacer Traditions and Rituals. Please.
Thank you again.
And back in effect with another annoying question or six...
1) What would be the proper Bilanidin for: Thornwood Holdings Group? Although it's obviously is not that easy...so here's the additional information...
This is the overall Famili Holding Company established, well back in the Rule of Man. It covers all the famili investments and such. For instance Thornwood Enterprises Unlimited, LIC is mostly Magnus' Personal Company and they specialize in Exotic Biologicals and Custom Memory Systems, but do invest in other Enterprises, thus the Unlimited part.
The Daarnulud Holdings Group or what ever would be the proper Vilani terms for the Group that has it tentacles in all the Famili Biz.
Also, as I am now a Starship's Master are there any other rituals besides dimming the lights pre-jump that I should be aware of. Serimadadaga Ibuukibi is up and running and I need to know the Proper Vilani Spacer Traditions and Rituals. Please.
Thank you again.
Darkhstarr
July 17th, 2008, 10:29 PM
I haven't used much of the software out there other than Tribblescape Vilani by Lonnie. Use that a lot to create vilani words based on english, japanese, or similar Solomani languages.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
July 18th, 2008, 06:56 AM
king of the gurukarpu maybe....:DKarungi gurukarpu -- although most Vilani would find the term too inherently ridiculous to even make sense as a joke. But I guess you have to be there, as the Solomani say ...
And back in effect with another annoying question or six...
1) What would be the proper Bilanidin for: Thornwood Holdings Group? Although it's obviously is not that easy...so here's the additional information...
This is the overall Famili Holding Company established, well back in the Rule of Man. It covers all the famili investments and such. For instance Thornwood Enterprises Unlimited, LIC is mostly Magnus' Personal Company and they specialize in Exotic Biologicals and Custom Memory Systems, but do invest in other Enterprises, thus the Unlimited part.
The Daarnulud Holdings Group or what ever would be the proper Vilani terms for the Group that has it tentacles in all the Famili Biz.Adirdika Gimudaarnaludak is the best approximation I can come up with (from a "possessed" preclitic + dirdika "business federation/financi al holdings" [dir “to group, bind together” + dika “conglomerate; combine”] + gimudaarnaludak [from gimu "financial" + Daarnalud + possessive postclitic ak], lit. "Business Federation owned by the Thornwood Family Financial Branch"), although you could also go with Adirdika Daarnaludak Gimaka (if you want to emphasize the whole family name over its financial aspects, as well as imply a firmer separation between the two). Adirdika Daarnaludak ("Thornwood's Financial Holdings") is also quite acceptible.
Also, as I am now a Starship's Master are there any other rituals besides dimming the lights pre-jump that I should be aware of. Serimadadaga Ibuukibi is up and running and I need to know the Proper Vilani Spacer Traditions and Rituals. Please.You know ... other than an emphasis on procedure and rapid fire (i.e. efficient) ritual, I don't think anyone's ever gone into what kinds of "space rituals" or superstitions the Vilani ever developed besides jump dimming. There probably are a lot from back in the Ziru Sirka days, though, considering their adherence to rote-learning in even their highest-skilled professions and their almost obsessive-compulsive reliance on problem-solving through flow charts and expert AI algorithms.
I suppose that might make Vilani overreliant on computers even to this day. No matter what problem a crew of Vilani might face, then, it's a given that at least one of them will be assigned to "check the computer" about it. That'd certainly come off as quirky behavior to most Solomani:
"Cap'n, the head's backing up."
"Again? Isshuggi, go get the plunger and report to 'C' deck. Open a channel when you get there and wait for our response. Eneri, go check the computer ..."
And back in effect with another annoying question or six...
1) What would be the proper Bilanidin for: Thornwood Holdings Group? Although it's obviously is not that easy...so here's the additional information...
This is the overall Famili Holding Company established, well back in the Rule of Man. It covers all the famili investments and such. For instance Thornwood Enterprises Unlimited, LIC is mostly Magnus' Personal Company and they specialize in Exotic Biologicals and Custom Memory Systems, but do invest in other Enterprises, thus the Unlimited part.
The Daarnulud Holdings Group or what ever would be the proper Vilani terms for the Group that has it tentacles in all the Famili Biz.Adirdika Gimudaarnaludak is the best approximation I can come up with (from a "possessed" preclitic + dirdika "business federation/financi al holdings" [dir “to group, bind together” + dika “conglomerate; combine”] + gimudaarnaludak [from gimu "financial" + Daarnalud + possessive postclitic ak], lit. "Business Federation owned by the Thornwood Family Financial Branch"), although you could also go with Adirdika Daarnaludak Gimaka (if you want to emphasize the whole family name over its financial aspects, as well as imply a firmer separation between the two). Adirdika Daarnaludak ("Thornwood's Financial Holdings") is also quite acceptible.
Also, as I am now a Starship's Master are there any other rituals besides dimming the lights pre-jump that I should be aware of. Serimadadaga Ibuukibi is up and running and I need to know the Proper Vilani Spacer Traditions and Rituals. Please.You know ... other than an emphasis on procedure and rapid fire (i.e. efficient) ritual, I don't think anyone's ever gone into what kinds of "space rituals" or superstitions the Vilani ever developed besides jump dimming. There probably are a lot from back in the Ziru Sirka days, though, considering their adherence to rote-learning in even their highest-skilled professions and their almost obsessive-compulsive reliance on problem-solving through flow charts and expert AI algorithms.
I suppose that might make Vilani overreliant on computers even to this day. No matter what problem a crew of Vilani might face, then, it's a given that at least one of them will be assigned to "check the computer" about it. That'd certainly come off as quirky behavior to most Solomani:
"Cap'n, the head's backing up."
"Again? Isshuggi, go get the plunger and report to 'C' deck. Open a channel when you get there and wait for our response. Eneri, go check the computer ..."
Magnus von Thornwood
July 18th, 2008, 06:08 PM
And I didn't even have to look it up...hoping I did spell it right.
Karungi gurukarpu -- although most Vilani would find the term too inherently ridiculous to even make sense as a joke. But I guess you have to be there, as the Solomani say ...Well, I suppose this counts then, as we are here. Now I can parse it sorta, on second thought maybe not...I think I see Karun is a emperor, and a post-clitic gi meaning that the noun following it is what the Karun ruler of?
It seems to me culturally the actual title of the Karungi Zira Sika would run something like "the (Vetted) Shadowed (Overseer/Ombudsman) Emperor of the (Council of Bureaux) Grand Imperium of the Stars". The words in parenthesis are the Bilanidin and the non-parenthetical words are what the Solomani heard.
Adirdika Gimudaarnaludak is the best approximation I can come up with (from a "possessed" preclitic + dirdika "business federation/financial holdings" dir “to group, bind together” + dika “conglomerate; combine”] + gimudaarnaludak [from gimu "financial" + Daarnalud + possessive postclitic ak], lit. "Business Federation owned by the Thornwood Family Financial Branch"), although you could also go with Adirdika Daarnaludak Gimaka (if you want to emphasize the whole family name over its financial aspects, as well as imply a firmer separation between the two). Adirdika Daarnaludak ("Thornwood's Financial Holdings") is also quite acceptible.Probably the first or second one as this is everything the Famili owns or has it's fingers/tentacles in lots of stuff, we do some business in the Federation and shhhh...we certain business in the Consulate as well, so I am thinking the first. And thank you again.
You know ... other than an emphasis on procedure and rapid fire (i.e. efficient) ritual, I don't think anyone's ever gone into what kinds of "space rituals" or superstitions the Vilani ever developed besides jump dimming. There probably are a lot from back in the Ziru Sirka days, though, considering their adherence to rote-learning in even their highest-skilled professions and their almost obsessive-compulsive reliance on problem-solving through flow charts and expert AI algorithms.
I suppose that might make Vilani overreliant on computers even to this day. No matter what problem a crew of Vilani might face, then, it's a given that at least one of them will be assigned to "check the computer" about it. That'd certainly come off as quirky behavior to most Solomani:
"Cap'n, the head's backing up."
"Again? Isshuggi, go get the plunger and report to 'C' deck. Open a channel when you get there and wait for our response. Eneri, go check the computer ..."Hmmmm, food for thought here. I will have to think about this. They might be heavy with the Protocols as the protocols would be developed over time and your right most are filed in the computer for ease of retrieval, format/standards and use.
Or how I see it so far, but again Karungi Gurukarpu is pulling some of this from the AEther. So...who knows, I mean besides M. Shugilii?
Karungi gurukarpu -- although most Vilani would find the term too inherently ridiculous to even make sense as a joke. But I guess you have to be there, as the Solomani say ...Well, I suppose this counts then, as we are here. Now I can parse it sorta, on second thought maybe not...I think I see Karun is a emperor, and a post-clitic gi meaning that the noun following it is what the Karun ruler of?
It seems to me culturally the actual title of the Karungi Zira Sika would run something like "the (Vetted) Shadowed (Overseer/Ombudsman) Emperor of the (Council of Bureaux) Grand Imperium of the Stars". The words in parenthesis are the Bilanidin and the non-parenthetical words are what the Solomani heard.
Adirdika Gimudaarnaludak is the best approximation I can come up with (from a "possessed" preclitic + dirdika "business federation/financial holdings" dir “to group, bind together” + dika “conglomerate; combine”] + gimudaarnaludak [from gimu "financial" + Daarnalud + possessive postclitic ak], lit. "Business Federation owned by the Thornwood Family Financial Branch"), although you could also go with Adirdika Daarnaludak Gimaka (if you want to emphasize the whole family name over its financial aspects, as well as imply a firmer separation between the two). Adirdika Daarnaludak ("Thornwood's Financial Holdings") is also quite acceptible.Probably the first or second one as this is everything the Famili owns or has it's fingers/tentacles in lots of stuff, we do some business in the Federation and shhhh...we certain business in the Consulate as well, so I am thinking the first. And thank you again.
You know ... other than an emphasis on procedure and rapid fire (i.e. efficient) ritual, I don't think anyone's ever gone into what kinds of "space rituals" or superstitions the Vilani ever developed besides jump dimming. There probably are a lot from back in the Ziru Sirka days, though, considering their adherence to rote-learning in even their highest-skilled professions and their almost obsessive-compulsive reliance on problem-solving through flow charts and expert AI algorithms.
I suppose that might make Vilani overreliant on computers even to this day. No matter what problem a crew of Vilani might face, then, it's a given that at least one of them will be assigned to "check the computer" about it. That'd certainly come off as quirky behavior to most Solomani:
"Cap'n, the head's backing up."
"Again? Isshuggi, go get the plunger and report to 'C' deck. Open a channel when you get there and wait for our response. Eneri, go check the computer ..."Hmmmm, food for thought here. I will have to think about this. They might be heavy with the Protocols as the protocols would be developed over time and your right most are filed in the computer for ease of retrieval, format/standards and use.
Or how I see it so far, but again Karungi Gurukarpu is pulling some of this from the AEther. So...who knows, I mean besides M. Shugilii?
G. Kashkanun Anderson
July 19th, 2008, 07:27 AM
And I didn't even have to look it up...hoping I did spell it right.
Well, I suppose this counts then, as we are here. Now I can parse it sorta, on second thought maybe not...I think I see Karun is a emperor, and a post-clitic gi meaning that the noun following it is what the Karun ruler of?Karun is usually interpreted as "emperor;" but that is rather misleading. The term in its most generic sense simply means "leader," and as such has also been used as an approximation of the Anglic titles of "king," "lord," and even "president." I doubt that its use without an attached adjective or descriptor (Ishimkarun, Makhidkarun, etc.) would mean anything other than the highest authority in any given group.
It's probably etymologically related to the word kaaren (kaar "to make right, correct" + en "lord, master"), which I take to mean "supervisor" or "mentor." Note that this compound word does not show up in the Vilani dictionary; but since it's "built" through perfectly acceptible grammatical practices, it does exist.
It seems to me culturally the actual title of the Karungi Zira Sika would run something like "the (Vetted) Shadowed (Overseer/Ombudsman) Emperor of the (Council of Bureaux) Grand Imperium of the Stars". The words in parenthesis are the Bilanidin and the non-parenthetical words are what the Solomani heard.Well, to be really technical ("grammar police, ho!"), it's Ishimkarungi Zirusirka ("Vetted/Hidden Leader of the Stars that are Controlled/Managed"). "Proper" Vilani grammar dictates that when the descriptor is placed in front of the noun (implying permanence and/or legitimacy to the described state) it is treated as one word. In practice, this is not the case for Ziru Sirka, at least as it's rendered in good ol' Anglic. The grammatically "correct" way to render this phrase as two separate words would be Sirka Ziruka; although to use it in this way during the First Imperium Era would have been considered seditious at the very least, and even today would come off as rather insulting to Vilani ears.
It is a pretty snappy comeback for any Vilani who's been driving you around the bend with his constant "Ramshackle Empire" references, on the other hand.;)
Well, I suppose this counts then, as we are here. Now I can parse it sorta, on second thought maybe not...I think I see Karun is a emperor, and a post-clitic gi meaning that the noun following it is what the Karun ruler of?Karun is usually interpreted as "emperor;" but that is rather misleading. The term in its most generic sense simply means "leader," and as such has also been used as an approximation of the Anglic titles of "king," "lord," and even "president." I doubt that its use without an attached adjective or descriptor (Ishimkarun, Makhidkarun, etc.) would mean anything other than the highest authority in any given group.
It's probably etymologically related to the word kaaren (kaar "to make right, correct" + en "lord, master"), which I take to mean "supervisor" or "mentor." Note that this compound word does not show up in the Vilani dictionary; but since it's "built" through perfectly acceptible grammatical practices, it does exist.
It seems to me culturally the actual title of the Karungi Zira Sika would run something like "the (Vetted) Shadowed (Overseer/Ombudsman) Emperor of the (Council of Bureaux) Grand Imperium of the Stars". The words in parenthesis are the Bilanidin and the non-parenthetical words are what the Solomani heard.Well, to be really technical ("grammar police, ho!"), it's Ishimkarungi Zirusirka ("Vetted/Hidden Leader of the Stars that are Controlled/Managed"). "Proper" Vilani grammar dictates that when the descriptor is placed in front of the noun (implying permanence and/or legitimacy to the described state) it is treated as one word. In practice, this is not the case for Ziru Sirka, at least as it's rendered in good ol' Anglic. The grammatically "correct" way to render this phrase as two separate words would be Sirka Ziruka; although to use it in this way during the First Imperium Era would have been considered seditious at the very least, and even today would come off as rather insulting to Vilani ears.
It is a pretty snappy comeback for any Vilani who's been driving you around the bend with his constant "Ramshackle Empire" references, on the other hand.;)
Magnus von Thornwood
July 20th, 2008, 06:23 PM
LOL, Return of the Grammar Cops. Ahh, good times. :D
Thanks again for the information and the quick 'oh yeah' to those who talk down about the Glori Days of the Rule of Man...of course it's is kind of confusing if you are into the big picture. I mean technically Vilani still count as "Man" being a Branch of Humaniti and you know *grins* plucked from the Green Hills of Earth all those Eons ago. Of course by that logic we'd have to include the Zhodane....and maybe even Vargr.
Anyway thanks again. I am pretty sure I'll be back sooner or later, probably sooner, with yet more annoying questions, but till then....
Thanks again for the information and the quick 'oh yeah' to those who talk down about the Glori Days of the Rule of Man...of course it's is kind of confusing if you are into the big picture. I mean technically Vilani still count as "Man" being a Branch of Humaniti and you know *grins* plucked from the Green Hills of Earth all those Eons ago. Of course by that logic we'd have to include the Zhodane....and maybe even Vargr.
Anyway thanks again. I am pretty sure I'll be back sooner or later, probably sooner, with yet more annoying questions, but till then....
Magnus von Thornwood
September 1st, 2008, 09:03 AM
So I was going though the Safari PbP Post and found this phrase I tried to put together to express feeling particularly clever and happy about it too (that seems to be sure fire way to be wrong some times.):
"Kishariin shiig!"
Did I get it right or wrong wishes to know the gurukarpu.
"Kishariin shiig!"
Did I get it right or wrong wishes to know the gurukarpu.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
September 1st, 2008, 10:14 AM
Well, assuming you're using kishariin as the inflected verb, and not as the general exclamation ("eureka!") -- and also assuming that you mean shiig ("knowledge, information") as opposed to shiig ("unit of measurement roughly equivalent to an inch"), then I think you mean something like:(literally): "this distant or otherwise removed information is abundant/of limitless value!"
(less literally): "Here's some great new information!" "We've uncovered something neat!" "Well, this is (pleasantly) unexpected!"
... or maybe even just: "Good news, everybody!"
Well, that's what I get from it. Is it what you expected?
(less literally): "Here's some great new information!" "We've uncovered something neat!" "Well, this is (pleasantly) unexpected!"
... or maybe even just: "Good news, everybody!"
Well, that's what I get from it. Is it what you expected?
Magnus von Thornwood
September 1st, 2008, 10:12 PM
Well, assuming you're using kishariin as the inflected verb, and not as the general exclamation ("eureka!") -- and also assuming that you mean shiig ("knowledge, information") as opposed to shiig ("unit of measurement roughly equivalent to an inch"), then I think you mean something like:(literally): "this distant or otherwise removed information is abundant/of limitless value!"
(less literally): "Here's some great new information!" "We've uncovered something neat!" "Well, this is (pleasantly) unexpected!"
... or maybe even just: "Good news, everybody!"
Well, that's what I get from it. Is it what you expected?
It was the latter two actually and the middle entry mostly, funny though that the word "Shiig" has two definitions. How many other words are like that, I have to wait to find out till I get printer in and can print out the lexicon.
Heading into the dangerous territory of assumption, I take it that the definition is derived from the context, yes?
And of course "inflected verb" means what pray tell?
Last but by no means least, thank you again for the help.
(less literally): "Here's some great new information!" "We've uncovered something neat!" "Well, this is (pleasantly) unexpected!"
... or maybe even just: "Good news, everybody!"
Well, that's what I get from it. Is it what you expected?
It was the latter two actually and the middle entry mostly, funny though that the word "Shiig" has two definitions. How many other words are like that, I have to wait to find out till I get printer in and can print out the lexicon.
Heading into the dangerous territory of assumption, I take it that the definition is derived from the context, yes?
And of course "inflected verb" means what pray tell?
Last but by no means least, thank you again for the help.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
September 2nd, 2008, 02:38 AM
Heading into the dangerous territory of assumption, I take it that the definition is derived from the context, yes?Sure. Plenty of English words are exactly the same way; that's why we have puns and double entendres. On the other hand, Vilani is a tonal language, so the two versions of shiig might not be strictly the same if they're intoned differently. We don't know that, however, since intonation isn't included in any of the Vilani dictionaries out there.
And of course "inflected verb" means what pray tell?That's just the junk you slap on to a verb (or any word, really) that modifies it to the situation at hand (tense, number, etc.), or just allows it to "fit" in with the rest of the sentence grammatically. An inflection can take the form of a prefix, affix/suffix, or even an infix -- although neither English nor Vilani has any examples of infixing, as far as I know.
Attaching the English past tense suffix -ed to a verb (e.g. "walk, walked") is a good, basic example of verb inflection.
Last but by no means least, thank you again for the help.Gadas in ruuza!
And of course "inflected verb" means what pray tell?That's just the junk you slap on to a verb (or any word, really) that modifies it to the situation at hand (tense, number, etc.), or just allows it to "fit" in with the rest of the sentence grammatically. An inflection can take the form of a prefix, affix/suffix, or even an infix -- although neither English nor Vilani has any examples of infixing, as far as I know.
Attaching the English past tense suffix -ed to a verb (e.g. "walk, walked") is a good, basic example of verb inflection.
Last but by no means least, thank you again for the help.Gadas in ruuza!
Magnus von Thornwood
September 2nd, 2008, 03:02 AM
Knowing that I am of course the Gurukarpu, and thus not up to snuff yet in my studies of Bilanidin, could you remind me what the translation of the following is:
Gadas in ruuza!
I have the feeling that I have been told this one or it was mentioned before, but as I have been out of the loop for about a month I have forgotten....
One the good things about on CotI alot and being back to my studies is that eventually these things will hopefully become second nature, but till then, lots of hard work and mistakes are my future.
Thanks for putting up with my annoying questions and such, I do really appreciate the assistance. And I thought that Latin and French were a PITA to learn, or at least study...only got a semester in each back in the ancient days of high school, so once I get ink and print out the various docs that Robject put up I suspect it will be easier....I suffer from old schooler syndrome in that hard copy is my preferred method of study.
Gadas in ruuza!
I have the feeling that I have been told this one or it was mentioned before, but as I have been out of the loop for about a month I have forgotten....
One the good things about on CotI alot and being back to my studies is that eventually these things will hopefully become second nature, but till then, lots of hard work and mistakes are my future.
Thanks for putting up with my annoying questions and such, I do really appreciate the assistance. And I thought that Latin and French were a PITA to learn, or at least study...only got a semester in each back in the ancient days of high school, so once I get ink and print out the various docs that Robject put up I suspect it will be easier....I suffer from old schooler syndrome in that hard copy is my preferred method of study.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
September 2nd, 2008, 11:15 AM
It's just a phrase meaning "you're welcome." Actually, it's a pretty formal way of saying it; conversationally, you can just get by with a quick ruuza.
The most common Vilani phrase for "thank you" is shalena in bagaan (formally), or simply bagaan (informally).
Going off the rails a bit, these phrases are only used IMTU between people who know each other, or who at least have a well-established relationship of some kind. There are other forms of "thank you/you're welcome" phrases that can be found around Vilani space (again, IMTU) -- some of whom actually come off as quite rude-sounding to an Anglic speaker -- but which are entirely appropriate, from a situational point of view.
The most common Vilani phrase for "thank you" is shalena in bagaan (formally), or simply bagaan (informally).
Going off the rails a bit, these phrases are only used IMTU between people who know each other, or who at least have a well-established relationship of some kind. There are other forms of "thank you/you're welcome" phrases that can be found around Vilani space (again, IMTU) -- some of whom actually come off as quite rude-sounding to an Anglic speaker -- but which are entirely appropriate, from a situational point of view.
robject
September 2nd, 2008, 11:44 AM
Going off the rails a bit, these phrases are only used IMTU between people who know each other, or who at least have a well-established relationship of some kind. There are other forms of "thank you/you're welcome" phrases that can be found around Vilani space (again, IMTU) -- some of whom actually come off as quite rude-sounding to an Anglic speaker -- but which are entirely appropriate, from a situational point of view.
That's very likely to be the OTU case as well.
That's very likely to be the OTU case as well.
Andrew Boulton
September 2nd, 2008, 12:27 PM
Xenolinguists - the people even gearheads think need to get out more :)
Magnus von Thornwood
September 2nd, 2008, 11:41 PM
Xenolinguists - the people even gearheads think need to get out more :)
Hey, we resemble that remark....
I just moved out to my own place to have more time to myself to work on projects, like xenolinguistics. :p Really, getting out is overrated, unless I can bring my computer...which I love only second to my kitty. Yes, it's true, I am sad.
It looks like Friday is the day of ink, so hopefully by next week, I will get to read, Rob's tiny print Vilani Grammar pages (I did get about half the even pages printed before I lost all printing capacity.)
Ruuza! (Thought I was having problems with the Vilani, and I realize I have to teach my computer the language too.)
Hey, we resemble that remark....
I just moved out to my own place to have more time to myself to work on projects, like xenolinguistics. :p Really, getting out is overrated, unless I can bring my computer...which I love only second to my kitty. Yes, it's true, I am sad.
It looks like Friday is the day of ink, so hopefully by next week, I will get to read, Rob's tiny print Vilani Grammar pages (I did get about half the even pages printed before I lost all printing capacity.)
Ruuza! (Thought I was having problems with the Vilani, and I realize I have to teach my computer the language too.)
G. Kashkanun Anderson
September 3rd, 2008, 05:29 AM
Xenolinguists - the people even gearheads think need to get out more :)Isn't that a bit like the AV Club looking down on the Chess Team?:smirk:
Magnus von Thornwood
September 3rd, 2008, 05:38 AM
While horrifically off topic, though, I think this thread went off the topic awhile ago, it's is damned funny. Of course I was an AV kid, and not a Chess kid...I taught my sister (4 years younger) and she beat me 3 out 5 games...that's when I stopped playing her. But by God, I knew the innards of the old Bell and Howells like no one. :p
Jame
September 3rd, 2008, 08:44 AM
Someone (Not Me At All) should collect all the words in Vilani here and make a dictionary. I'd download that FREE product and learn it.
robject
September 3rd, 2008, 10:13 AM
Someone (Not Me At All) should collect all the words in Vilani here and make a dictionary. I'd download that FREE product and learn it.
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Grammar.html
If you want a PDF of the grammar, let me know.
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Grammar.html
If you want a PDF of the grammar, let me know.
Magnus von Thornwood
September 3rd, 2008, 07:19 PM
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/lang/vilani/Vilani_Grammar.html
If you want a PDF of the grammar, let me know.If so I do, I do...(need a 'jumping up and down, excited like' emoticon).
EDIT: So like I know that the first word is a swear word, but the second and does the sentence change the first word's usage, like 'damned cool' or some thing:
Kugganzir, zigalamasu!
If you want a PDF of the grammar, let me know.If so I do, I do...(need a 'jumping up and down, excited like' emoticon).
EDIT: So like I know that the first word is a swear word, but the second and does the sentence change the first word's usage, like 'damned cool' or some thing:
Kugganzir, zigalamasu!
coliver988
September 3rd, 2008, 07:43 PM
In Firefox, at least, you can convert any web page into a PDF. Rob's grammer page appeared to be one large web page on my initial (and amazed) glance, so http://www.pdfdownload.org/ would work to create a PDF of that for you. I've used it a few times to save some ship web pages as PDFs. I've heard a few people complain about it, but so far it was worked well for me. Unfortunately, it will not map out links on the pages for sub-pages, although the non-free version may, I don't know.
Just an FYI for those pages where people are not so darned agreeable about sending you the PDF themselves.
Just an FYI for those pages where people are not so darned agreeable about sending you the PDF themselves.
aramis
September 4th, 2008, 12:24 AM
Damn... I used to own a pair of B&H filmosound projectors. Still have anamorphic lenses for them. (So I could show Cinemascope films.)
Magnus von Thornwood
September 4th, 2008, 12:29 AM
I didn't know they did Cinemascope in 16mm. :p
Still, neato stuff. So does that mean you're with us AV kids?
Still, neato stuff. So does that mean you're with us AV kids?
BlackBat242
September 4th, 2008, 01:32 AM
If so I do, I do...(need a 'jumping up and down, excited like' emoticon).
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/images/smilies/bounce.gif
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/images/smilies/bounce.gif
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Bager1968/Game%20stuff/badger.gif
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Bager1968/Game%20stuff/badger.gif
http://rizak.info/AVATARS/90/bouncy.gif
http://rizak.info/AVATARS/90/bouncy.gif
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/images/smilies/bounce.gif
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/images/smilies/bounce.gif
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Bager1968/Game%20stuff/badger.gif
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Bager1968/Game%20stuff/badger.gif
http://rizak.info/AVATARS/90/bouncy.gif
http://rizak.info/AVATARS/90/bouncy.gif
Magnus von Thornwood
September 4th, 2008, 01:41 AM
OK, that's...interesting. The first seems alright, the second odd, though being a Wisconsinite, I do have to like the badger, even if it looks like he's about to take a dump...and three, well, I dig it but, can't lie, it's one of those perv thoughts, which in a effort not to get in too much trouble I won't share, though excited is the key word. :smirk:
aramis
September 4th, 2008, 02:13 AM
Uhm... no. (4 year Choir Letterman. 4 Year NJROTC. 5 year CAP Cadet. 2 year FD Explorer. 11 year Alter Server at a Catholic Cathedral.)
And yes, C-Scope was used on many 16mm prints. $&#**^% %*%#^ to get a decent focus. (To decode: I write profanity by using the number of the same finger as the letter... whilst holding the shift key.)
I showed the Star Wars trillogy (Eps 4-5-6) in 'scope one weekend...
And yes, C-Scope was used on many 16mm prints. $&#**^% %*%#^ to get a decent focus. (To decode: I write profanity by using the number of the same finger as the letter... whilst holding the shift key.)
I showed the Star Wars trillogy (Eps 4-5-6) in 'scope one weekend...
Magnus von Thornwood
September 4th, 2008, 02:21 AM
Nice set of Terms there, Navy, Air Force, Fire Department, Scouts and of course the Church...interesting skill set to say the least.
aramis
September 4th, 2008, 02:53 AM
Uh.. did I mention they overlap within a 12 year period? (age 7 to 4 years past HS.) Oh, and I forgot to mention that there was US Army Basic Training right after HS.
The AK Wing CAP DCC wanted to give me the AK CAP nomination to the USAF Academy... I said "no"... because I'd have had to lie to pass the physical.
:)
Yes, I've lived an interesting life.
One of my ex-GF's ran off to europe and became a model. Every so often she sends a perfumed letter via a mutal friend.
One of my cousins married a european vintner. She's also been a model.
I was baptised by a cousin who was a RC priest, but got permission to leave the RC priesthood and get married. His wife of 25+ years just left him...
I have vague recollections of discussing Motzart over coffee with a waitress (later fired for being 15) from one of the Village Inn restaurants in Anchorage; at the time I held my smogs in the Russian manner, and was smoking papyrosij. Quite a shocker to see Jewel's "Pieces of You" video... and thinking "I know her from somewhere..."
I've had drinks with Ted Stevens at the Baranof Hotel. It's two blocks from where the Birdman of Alcatraz committed his first known murder.
I've had drinks with the chaps who played Martok and Gowron. They are an absolute hoot in person. Far more fun in the bar than in the con-rooms.
I stunned Rene Aberjenois by asking him about MASH (the movie) and Bensen during an anchorage Q&A... Same con, I floored the guy who played Doctor Franklin on Bab5 by pointing out that there was a Role-Playing Game about the B5 universe. He asked if it used cast photos or screen caps.... (That was pre-mongoose... so No. CE was too cheap to pay for Cast Photos...)
So, is there a vilani word for "has done way too much but doesn't remember enough of it?"
The AK Wing CAP DCC wanted to give me the AK CAP nomination to the USAF Academy... I said "no"... because I'd have had to lie to pass the physical.
:)
Yes, I've lived an interesting life.
One of my ex-GF's ran off to europe and became a model. Every so often she sends a perfumed letter via a mutal friend.
One of my cousins married a european vintner. She's also been a model.
I was baptised by a cousin who was a RC priest, but got permission to leave the RC priesthood and get married. His wife of 25+ years just left him...
I have vague recollections of discussing Motzart over coffee with a waitress (later fired for being 15) from one of the Village Inn restaurants in Anchorage; at the time I held my smogs in the Russian manner, and was smoking papyrosij. Quite a shocker to see Jewel's "Pieces of You" video... and thinking "I know her from somewhere..."
I've had drinks with Ted Stevens at the Baranof Hotel. It's two blocks from where the Birdman of Alcatraz committed his first known murder.
I've had drinks with the chaps who played Martok and Gowron. They are an absolute hoot in person. Far more fun in the bar than in the con-rooms.
I stunned Rene Aberjenois by asking him about MASH (the movie) and Bensen during an anchorage Q&A... Same con, I floored the guy who played Doctor Franklin on Bab5 by pointing out that there was a Role-Playing Game about the B5 universe. He asked if it used cast photos or screen caps.... (That was pre-mongoose... so No. CE was too cheap to pay for Cast Photos...)
So, is there a vilani word for "has done way too much but doesn't remember enough of it?"
Andrew Boulton
September 4th, 2008, 09:33 AM
I do have to like the badger, even if it looks like he's about to take a dump...
http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/
http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/
Magnus von Thornwood
September 4th, 2008, 12:58 PM
Maybe I don't!
One can take even love one's state too far, this qualifies. Thanks for wasting a whopping three minutes of my life Andrew...where do you people find this stuff anyway?
One can take even love one's state too far, this qualifies. Thanks for wasting a whopping three minutes of my life Andrew...where do you people find this stuff anyway?
Andrew Boulton
September 4th, 2008, 01:03 PM
I need to get a life.
Magnus von Thornwood
September 4th, 2008, 01:11 PM
Really, have you tried Fred's Second Hand Lives...I hear they got some. :p
Or you could go and animate us a whopping doozy of a spinal mount firing...I bet that goes over way better than "dancing?" badgers. :D
Or you could go and animate us a whopping doozy of a spinal mount firing...I bet that goes over way better than "dancing?" badgers. :D
Magnus von Thornwood
September 12th, 2008, 09:03 AM
Greetings Professors:
Your Gururkarpu is at it again:
OUTLINE for PROPOSED TEXTBOOK, TITLE: 1st Term Bilanidin. by Professor R. Eaglestone. with additional work by GKA. Compiled and Copyset by MvT.
1st Term Bilanidin.
by
Professor R. Eaglestone.
Vilani (Bilanidin) Etymology. (2 pages) 1-2.
Bilanidin Phonetics. (2 pages) 3-4.
Introduction to Bilanidin. [Easy/Medium] (16 pages) 5-20.
Advanced Bilanidin. [Medium/Hard] (40 pages) 21-60.
Example Texts.
Bilanidin Babel Text. (5 pages) 61-65.
Universal Declaration of Human Rights. [(Vilani] (2 pages) 66-67.
A Bilanidin Liturgy and Benediction. [Bilanidin/Anglic] (1 page) 68.
Ziru Sirka-Instrument of Surrender to Terran Confederation. [Bilanidin/Anglic] (2 pages) 69-70.
Ziru Sirka-Instrument of Surrender to Terran Confederation. [Ruuraak] (1 page) 71.
A Popular (Course) Expletive. [Ruuraak/Bilanidin] (1 page) 72.
Notes.
Talkin' Vilani. [Parts 1/2.] (Part 1: 20 pages, Part 2: 17 pages, Total: 37 pages) P1: 73-93. P2: 94-110.
Talkin' Vilani [Chant] (2 pages) 111-112.
Vilani Word. [Part 1/2] (P1: 23 pages, P2: 2 pages, Total: 25 pages) P1: 113-135, P2: 136-137.
So what do you think?
Your Gururkarpu is at it again:
OUTLINE for PROPOSED TEXTBOOK, TITLE: 1st Term Bilanidin. by Professor R. Eaglestone. with additional work by GKA. Compiled and Copyset by MvT.
1st Term Bilanidin.
by
Professor R. Eaglestone.
Vilani (Bilanidin) Etymology. (2 pages) 1-2.
Bilanidin Phonetics. (2 pages) 3-4.
Introduction to Bilanidin. [Easy/Medium] (16 pages) 5-20.
Advanced Bilanidin. [Medium/Hard] (40 pages) 21-60.
Example Texts.
Bilanidin Babel Text. (5 pages) 61-65.
Universal Declaration of Human Rights. [(Vilani] (2 pages) 66-67.
A Bilanidin Liturgy and Benediction. [Bilanidin/Anglic] (1 page) 68.
Ziru Sirka-Instrument of Surrender to Terran Confederation. [Bilanidin/Anglic] (2 pages) 69-70.
Ziru Sirka-Instrument of Surrender to Terran Confederation. [Ruuraak] (1 page) 71.
A Popular (Course) Expletive. [Ruuraak/Bilanidin] (1 page) 72.
Notes.
Talkin' Vilani. [Parts 1/2.] (Part 1: 20 pages, Part 2: 17 pages, Total: 37 pages) P1: 73-93. P2: 94-110.
Talkin' Vilani [Chant] (2 pages) 111-112.
Vilani Word. [Part 1/2] (P1: 23 pages, P2: 2 pages, Total: 25 pages) P1: 113-135, P2: 136-137.
So what do you think?
robject
September 12th, 2008, 09:19 AM
heavens...
G. Kashkanun Anderson
September 12th, 2008, 11:38 AM
:oo:
... and then we could contact the Rosetta Stone (http://www.rosettastone.com/) people about putting together a conversational CD, too! I'd love to see some of the everyday situations they could come up with for Vilani speakers.
I do like the idea of compartmentalizing the linguistic information a little more, for easier referencing. I think adding a chapter on Old High Vilani would be a good idea as well, since there are grammatical and phonological differences between it and the modern version of the language.
... and then we could contact the Rosetta Stone (http://www.rosettastone.com/) people about putting together a conversational CD, too! I'd love to see some of the everyday situations they could come up with for Vilani speakers.
I do like the idea of compartmentalizing the linguistic information a little more, for easier referencing. I think adding a chapter on Old High Vilani would be a good idea as well, since there are grammatical and phonological differences between it and the modern version of the language.
Magnus von Thornwood
September 12th, 2008, 11:48 AM
:oo:
... and then we could contact the Rosetta Stone (http://www.rosettastone.com/) people about putting together a conversational CD, too! I'd love to see some of the everyday situations they could come up with for Vilani speakers.
I do like the idea of compartmentalizing the linguistic information a little more, for easier referencing. I think adding a chapter on Old High Vilani would be a good idea as well, since there are grammatical and phonological differences between it and the modern version of the language.Good Idea, Smashing Even, he said not having to write. :p
I asked Rob about posting some of the Example Texts that I did up, had fun with Fonts and Setting....But it looks good in print. :D He hasn't said 'yes' or 'no' yet, so am waiting with hope for a yes to show off a bit.
Oh and the bleeding HTML version of the Lexicon, try 239 pages and 6007 entries, not counting new ones from stuff here and on the other threads. Plus there is the .xls one and I haven't even cracked it to try...*grins* killed the ink cart in one night of printing, got at least a couple hundred out. Printed pages 122-239 of the .html Lexicon so far...wow, I knew the cart wouldn't last long, but ah well, at CrImps 20, I'll get more soon...sorta, like a week and then like 3 of them and 1 color and another couple of reams of paper: white, white, yellow, blue. Wheeeee!
... and then we could contact the Rosetta Stone (http://www.rosettastone.com/) people about putting together a conversational CD, too! I'd love to see some of the everyday situations they could come up with for Vilani speakers.
I do like the idea of compartmentalizing the linguistic information a little more, for easier referencing. I think adding a chapter on Old High Vilani would be a good idea as well, since there are grammatical and phonological differences between it and the modern version of the language.Good Idea, Smashing Even, he said not having to write. :p
I asked Rob about posting some of the Example Texts that I did up, had fun with Fonts and Setting....But it looks good in print. :D He hasn't said 'yes' or 'no' yet, so am waiting with hope for a yes to show off a bit.
Oh and the bleeding HTML version of the Lexicon, try 239 pages and 6007 entries, not counting new ones from stuff here and on the other threads. Plus there is the .xls one and I haven't even cracked it to try...*grins* killed the ink cart in one night of printing, got at least a couple hundred out. Printed pages 122-239 of the .html Lexicon so far...wow, I knew the cart wouldn't last long, but ah well, at CrImps 20, I'll get more soon...sorta, like a week and then like 3 of them and 1 color and another couple of reams of paper: white, white, yellow, blue. Wheeeee!
robject
October 9th, 2008, 12:03 PM
I do like the idea of compartmentalizing the linguistic information a little more, for easier referencing. I think adding a chapter on Old High Vilani would be a good idea as well, since there are grammatical and phonological differences between it and the modern version of the language.
The OHV document is completely separate, by the way... the intent is to separate them, as reference texts, much as is reasonable.
Oh and the bleeding HTML version of the Lexicon, try 239 pages and 6007 entries, not counting new ones from stuff here and on the other threads. Plus there is the .xls one and I haven't even cracked it to try...*grins* killed the ink cart in one night of printing, got at least a couple hundred out. Printed pages 122-239 of the .html Lexicon so far...wow, I knew the cart wouldn't last long, but ah well, at CrImps 20, I'll get more soon...sorta, like a week and then like 3 of them and 1 color and another couple of reams of paper: white, white, yellow, blue. Wheeeee!
My current word count is 6769, but there are many synonyms which are separate entries.
I really do intend to turn the grammar doc into a PDF so I can put it on the web, by the way... the HTML version just doesn't cut it these days.
The OHV document is completely separate, by the way... the intent is to separate them, as reference texts, much as is reasonable.
Oh and the bleeding HTML version of the Lexicon, try 239 pages and 6007 entries, not counting new ones from stuff here and on the other threads. Plus there is the .xls one and I haven't even cracked it to try...*grins* killed the ink cart in one night of printing, got at least a couple hundred out. Printed pages 122-239 of the .html Lexicon so far...wow, I knew the cart wouldn't last long, but ah well, at CrImps 20, I'll get more soon...sorta, like a week and then like 3 of them and 1 color and another couple of reams of paper: white, white, yellow, blue. Wheeeee!
My current word count is 6769, but there are many synonyms which are separate entries.
I really do intend to turn the grammar doc into a PDF so I can put it on the web, by the way... the HTML version just doesn't cut it these days.
robject
October 9th, 2008, 03:39 PM
Suggest-A-Word
Using this handy webpage (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/scripts/vilanigen4.html), feel free to generate and suggest some Vilani words for the lexicon.
The Rules Verbs must be 1 or 2 syllables. Other terms are at least 2 syllables.
Extra Point if you can suggest a word that somewhat resembles an existing word which has a related meaning, or suggest a derivation from an existing word.
And yes, you will get credit for that word, as well as points.
Here are words I'm currently looking for:
main, primary [adj]
to be prepared [vi]
previous [adj]
to suspend action temporarily [vi]
swamp [n]
to swap (i.e. to change places with; a non-economic trade) [vt]
syringe [n]
trait (as in genetic) [n]
to be translocated, displaced [vi]
truck (i.e. cargo-carrying motor vehicle; UK lorry) [n]
to be unusual [vi]
valve (i.e. flow controller) [n]
Using this handy webpage (http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/scripts/vilanigen4.html), feel free to generate and suggest some Vilani words for the lexicon.
The Rules Verbs must be 1 or 2 syllables. Other terms are at least 2 syllables.
Extra Point if you can suggest a word that somewhat resembles an existing word which has a related meaning, or suggest a derivation from an existing word.
And yes, you will get credit for that word, as well as points.
Here are words I'm currently looking for:
main, primary [adj]
to be prepared [vi]
previous [adj]
to suspend action temporarily [vi]
swamp [n]
to swap (i.e. to change places with; a non-economic trade) [vt]
syringe [n]
trait (as in genetic) [n]
to be translocated, displaced [vi]
truck (i.e. cargo-carrying motor vehicle; UK lorry) [n]
to be unusual [vi]
valve (i.e. flow controller) [n]
G. Kashkanun Anderson
October 9th, 2008, 05:38 PM
The OHV document is completely separate, by the way... the intent is to separate them, as reference texts, much as is reasonable.While I know that now, I didn't at first. As a result, I think I wound up using a few grammatical practices that are now considered archaic.
Suggest-A-WordI have jillions of words that I've got lying around somewhere. I'll see what I can come up with that's worth adding to the pile.;)
By the way, I worked out some additions to the sound change files you were apparently working on a few years ago. I have two that I think are more-or-less complete: a revised SV-OHV transformation, and a tool for adding Anglic loanwords into SV (through OHV). I have the SV-OHV rules currently posted up over on the Contact! section of the board, and I'll add the Anglic loanword rules up a little bit later.
Let me know what you think of them!
Suggest-A-WordI have jillions of words that I've got lying around somewhere. I'll see what I can come up with that's worth adding to the pile.;)
By the way, I worked out some additions to the sound change files you were apparently working on a few years ago. I have two that I think are more-or-less complete: a revised SV-OHV transformation, and a tool for adding Anglic loanwords into SV (through OHV). I have the SV-OHV rules currently posted up over on the Contact! section of the board, and I'll add the Anglic loanword rules up a little bit later.
Let me know what you think of them!
robject
October 10th, 2008, 12:49 AM
Let me know what you think of them!
As always, we are more than happy to incorporate your hard-won research into our knowledge base.
As always, we are more than happy to incorporate your hard-won research into our knowledge base.
Magnus von Thornwood
October 27th, 2008, 02:28 PM
Just got the DSL up today and so I am back online and now will have to get back to work on this project.
Sorry, but I haven't got much done since last time and now since I have a new (old) computer I have to regain all my links and stuff, as they were all on the other computer which is waiting for cash to get it resurrected and thus allowing me to get all the work and docs off it.
Sheesh.
Anyway jst a quick note to let you all know that I am back and will soon be caught up and thus back to being full on annoying soon. :p
Sorry, but I haven't got much done since last time and now since I have a new (old) computer I have to regain all my links and stuff, as they were all on the other computer which is waiting for cash to get it resurrected and thus allowing me to get all the work and docs off it.
Sheesh.
Anyway jst a quick note to let you all know that I am back and will soon be caught up and thus back to being full on annoying soon. :p
Magnus von Thornwood
August 20th, 2009, 06:54 AM
So Professors, I got another question.
What would be the proper Bilanidin for:
To the future, patiently.
It is Count hault-Daarnulud's motto.
If you could. Thanks.
Magnus.
What would be the proper Bilanidin for:
To the future, patiently.
It is Count hault-Daarnulud's motto.
If you could. Thanks.
Magnus.
robject
August 20th, 2009, 08:36 AM
[we're doing it] discourse participant-human agent-ingressive-cooperative-stative/durative verb form "to be going"-nonfuture direct-stative participle
Kha se-k-ga-ne-kii-kiish-0-ar to be patient-ad ka-future or kash-future
Kha sekganekiikiishar
ishemad
ka-kagimek.
Kha se-k-ga-ne-kii-kiish-0-ar to be patient-ad ka-future or kash-future
Kha sekganekiikiishar
ishemad
ka-kagimek.
robject
August 20th, 2009, 12:20 PM
Tones could shorten the text a bit, and you could omit the initial /Kha/, but does the translation sound about right?
Magnus von Thornwood
August 20th, 2009, 10:19 PM
Tones could shorten the text a bit, and you could omit the initial /Kha/, but does the translation sound about right?You are asking GKA right?
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