hirch duckfinder
April 17th, 2004, 08:39 AM
what happens when you open a door into jump space and something or someone drops out ???
recently , as my characters' ship was leaving liar's oath , i had a desire to rid myself of any connection to the place and eject a man wearing an orange sash out of the airlock in jump space .
i didn't do it .
anyone got an opinion , or even better a canonical explaination of what would have happened if i did ???
thanks in advance .
hirch .
recently , as my characters' ship was leaving liar's oath , i had a desire to rid myself of any connection to the place and eject a man wearing an orange sash out of the airlock in jump space .
i didn't do it .
anyone got an opinion , or even better a canonical explaination of what would have happened if i did ???
thanks in advance .
hirch .
mike wightman
April 17th, 2004, 09:03 AM
Well the guy pushed out would probably be dead and the ship may run the risk of a misjump, IMHO.
According to the Starship Operator's Manual getting too close to the jump field barrier causes insanity, temporary to permanent depending on exposure time and proximity to the actual barrier. There was a TAS news item about someone surviving exposure to jumpspace but the plot was never elaborated AFAIK.
The T4 adventures Long way home and Gateway have some interesting things happen in jumpspace ;)
According to the Starship Operator's Manual getting too close to the jump field barrier causes insanity, temporary to permanent depending on exposure time and proximity to the actual barrier. There was a TAS news item about someone surviving exposure to jumpspace but the plot was never elaborated AFAIK.
The T4 adventures Long way home and Gateway have some interesting things happen in jumpspace ;)
jfwking
April 17th, 2004, 09:53 AM
As the jump field sits above the hull it is possible to exit the ship and stay close to the hull without having part of you sucked into the great grey void.
I can remember several mentions of this but as I am in the process of moving my traveller books are in a box somewhere in a pile of boxes and I realy cannot be bothered to find them.
Going by memory however there was at least one mention of doing this in the Starship ops book as sigg said. One of the adventures also had this going on and I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere else with someone telling a story about having dont it.
In terms of a missjump, only if he was realy overwieght. Unless something is a fair fraction of the mass of the ship I don't see it causing a missjump when it passes through the field.
Of course thats not to say that opening an airlock in jump is safe. There are things that live in jump space, creatures, if you look into the jump void you see them staring back, they wisper to you when you sleep in jump, sometimes they tap on the hull. You know they are there, you know what I'm talking about. If you open the airlock they may get in.......
Hirch, give in to the temptation. DO IT.
No one here will ever tell :)
I can remember several mentions of this but as I am in the process of moving my traveller books are in a box somewhere in a pile of boxes and I realy cannot be bothered to find them.
Going by memory however there was at least one mention of doing this in the Starship ops book as sigg said. One of the adventures also had this going on and I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere else with someone telling a story about having dont it.
In terms of a missjump, only if he was realy overwieght. Unless something is a fair fraction of the mass of the ship I don't see it causing a missjump when it passes through the field.
Of course thats not to say that opening an airlock in jump is safe. There are things that live in jump space, creatures, if you look into the jump void you see them staring back, they wisper to you when you sleep in jump, sometimes they tap on the hull. You know they are there, you know what I'm talking about. If you open the airlock they may get in.......
Hirch, give in to the temptation. DO IT.
No one here will ever tell :)
Andrew Boulton
April 17th, 2004, 10:56 AM
"If you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
-- F. Nietzsche
Some examples from my games:
1. D'yan, the mad Vargr ex-Scout blamed her madness on peeking out of the window too often while alone in jump.
2. A couple of bored ex-Marines spent half an hour sitting in an airlock throwing melons at the jump field (!), just to see what would happen. They spent the rest of the week in sickbay.
3. An engineer had to go outside to perform emergency repairs on the jump grid. He was never quite the same after.
Jumpspace is hypnotic, with swirly colours like a soap bubble (although cameras just see "the colour of a TV tuned to a dead channel", implying a psionic effect). Looking at it too much can cause insanity. Anything touching it...goes away.
-- F. Nietzsche
Some examples from my games:
1. D'yan, the mad Vargr ex-Scout blamed her madness on peeking out of the window too often while alone in jump.
2. A couple of bored ex-Marines spent half an hour sitting in an airlock throwing melons at the jump field (!), just to see what would happen. They spent the rest of the week in sickbay.
3. An engineer had to go outside to perform emergency repairs on the jump grid. He was never quite the same after.
Jumpspace is hypnotic, with swirly colours like a soap bubble (although cameras just see "the colour of a TV tuned to a dead channel", implying a psionic effect). Looking at it too much can cause insanity. Anything touching it...goes away.
Straybow
April 17th, 2004, 12:13 PM
I'm not sure who the fellow with the orange sash might be, but if you're determined to rid yourself of his presence his compartment can be depressurized. The body can be jettisoned upon return to normal space (proper use of thrusters and a length of rope will vaporise the evidence).
kafka47
April 17th, 2004, 06:46 PM
One could employ the Fading Suns plot device called the Sathra Effect which was responsible for bringing demons back into the world to explain what would happen to individuals exposed to Jump Space.
Traveller had a more scientific explaination when it coined the term HiPPes for phenomena that is akin to Ghosts that occur in Jump Space.
Security Link magazine postulated that their might be islands within Jumpspace where habitable worlds might reside.
My own Traveller universe, I have used Swycaffer's idea of a FTL communication system existing in a stable Jump Space portal and also be inspired by B5 which is to say that there Shadows (not neccessarily B5 Shadows) residing in Jump Space but there are artifacts that date from the time of Ancients and before.
If we understand Jump Space to be a higher dimension than our own perception of 3. Then we would be no better than an inhabitant of Flatland looking at the Apple when we try to explain Jump Space.
Traveller had a more scientific explaination when it coined the term HiPPes for phenomena that is akin to Ghosts that occur in Jump Space.
Security Link magazine postulated that their might be islands within Jumpspace where habitable worlds might reside.
My own Traveller universe, I have used Swycaffer's idea of a FTL communication system existing in a stable Jump Space portal and also be inspired by B5 which is to say that there Shadows (not neccessarily B5 Shadows) residing in Jump Space but there are artifacts that date from the time of Ancients and before.
If we understand Jump Space to be a higher dimension than our own perception of 3. Then we would be no better than an inhabitant of Flatland looking at the Apple when we try to explain Jump Space.
kaladorn
April 18th, 2004, 12:29 AM
To my mind, your jump field is created at time of normalspace-jumpspace interface. It locks in a wee bit of your universe. It does not allow you to interact with Jumpspace, nor it with you.
Consequently, in the situation in question, you could open the doors, probably depressuring the room. The target would be cast out. But he would remain within the jumpspace bubble with your ship. Upon reemergence, he would be there too.
Consequently, in the situation in question, you could open the doors, probably depressuring the room. The target would be cast out. But he would remain within the jumpspace bubble with your ship. Upon reemergence, he would be there too.
Elliot
April 18th, 2004, 04:34 AM
Its like that Black Sabbath song, you know: Into the Void.....
Jamus
April 18th, 2004, 03:13 PM
Jump space seems a awful lot like wh40,000 warp space especially if there are entities living in the warp that can cause insanity.
far-trader
April 18th, 2004, 03:59 PM
The whole idea of Jumpspace Entities, we called 'em Jennies when I was in the service, is just an old superstition. There is not a shread of credible evidence in existance and I personally dealt with the IN boys of Project Gray Area* on a couple of occassions.
There are also some unclassified IN files dealing with attempts to launch craft while in Jumpspace. All attempts produced catastrophic results, typically resulting in the total destruction of both the launched and launching craft. The research was abandoned. Any Normalspace matter contacting the Jumpspace field barrier is annihilated in an explosion much like that of a matter-antimatter collision.
* Project Gray Area was set up by the Imperial Navy to investigate claims of abnormal Jumpspace phenomenon, both military and civilian.
There are also some unclassified IN files dealing with attempts to launch craft while in Jumpspace. All attempts produced catastrophic results, typically resulting in the total destruction of both the launched and launching craft. The research was abandoned. Any Normalspace matter contacting the Jumpspace field barrier is annihilated in an explosion much like that of a matter-antimatter collision.
* Project Gray Area was set up by the Imperial Navy to investigate claims of abnormal Jumpspace phenomenon, both military and civilian.
hirch duckfinder
April 19th, 2004, 05:13 AM
far-trader wrote
" Any Normalspace matter contacting the Jumpspace field barrier is annihilated in an explosion much like that of a matter-antimatter collision."
smile.gif :D ;) tongue.gif :cool:
now that's close to what i had in mind for him.....
" Any Normalspace matter contacting the Jumpspace field barrier is annihilated in an explosion much like that of a matter-antimatter collision."
smile.gif :D ;) tongue.gif :cool:
now that's close to what i had in mind for him.....
Straybow
April 19th, 2004, 06:49 AM
Matter annihilation would make sabotage too easy: a tiny 1 kg robot programmed to climb on at a starport and then jet off once in jump space could kill a zillion-ton ship with a 20MT explosion a hundred meters from the hull.
That guy with the orange sash would deliver a gigaton of revenge for being ejected from the airlock.
Bye, bye! tongue.gif
That guy with the orange sash would deliver a gigaton of revenge for being ejected from the airlock.
Bye, bye! tongue.gif
Liam Devlin
April 19th, 2004, 12:35 PM
Well Hirch, I daresay those of us here will keep mum if the orange sash guy does an unassited suit walk in J-space!
AFAIK, the antimatter-matter problem is pretty much how I learned it. You touch something of real space to J-Space-it is disntegrated (ala the ADnD spell).
Thrust your hand in..lose a hand.
Toss Orange-boy (Why I sound so festive about tossin this chap, I cannae say why? The color Orange mayhap? <evil laugh>)
and No body!
Bryan Gibson ran a group who managed to have to create their own death scenario after bilking hundreds of folks out of low berth fees, then ejecting the bodies into J-space.
They of course did this havoc on a one way trip towards the Imperial Border.
Faked their deaths, changed IDentities, and ships..and were never seen again.
...But I digress!
Slainte!
AFAIK, the antimatter-matter problem is pretty much how I learned it. You touch something of real space to J-Space-it is disntegrated (ala the ADnD spell).
Thrust your hand in..lose a hand.
Toss Orange-boy (Why I sound so festive about tossin this chap, I cannae say why? The color Orange mayhap? <evil laugh>)
and No body!
Bryan Gibson ran a group who managed to have to create their own death scenario after bilking hundreds of folks out of low berth fees, then ejecting the bodies into J-space.
They of course did this havoc on a one way trip towards the Imperial Border.
Faked their deaths, changed IDentities, and ships..and were never seen again.
...But I digress!
Slainte!
Liam Devlin
April 19th, 2004, 12:35 PM
Well Hirch, I daresay those of us here will keep mum if the orange sash guy does an unassited suit walk in J-space!
AFAIK, the antimatter-matter problem is pretty much how I learned it. You touch something of real space to J-Space-it is disntegrated (ala the ADnD spell).
Thrust your hand in..lose a hand.
Toss Orange-boy (Why I sound so festive about tossin this chap, I cannae say why? The color Orange mayhap? <evil laugh>)
and No body!
Bryan Gibson ran a group who managed to have to create their own death scenario after bilking hundreds of folks out of low berth fees, then ejecting the bodies into J-space.
They of course did this havoc on a one way trip towards the Imperial Border.
Faked their deaths, changed IDentities, and ships..and were never seen again.
...But I digress!
Slainte!
AFAIK, the antimatter-matter problem is pretty much how I learned it. You touch something of real space to J-Space-it is disntegrated (ala the ADnD spell).
Thrust your hand in..lose a hand.
Toss Orange-boy (Why I sound so festive about tossin this chap, I cannae say why? The color Orange mayhap? <evil laugh>)
and No body!
Bryan Gibson ran a group who managed to have to create their own death scenario after bilking hundreds of folks out of low berth fees, then ejecting the bodies into J-space.
They of course did this havoc on a one way trip towards the Imperial Border.
Faked their deaths, changed IDentities, and ships..and were never seen again.
...But I digress!
Slainte!
Straybow
April 19th, 2004, 01:48 PM
I suspect more people are concerned about relatives jetisoned than the paltry 1000 Cr. What idiot would kill for so little? :rolleyes:
graemlins/file_23.gif If I were that GM I'd arrange to have a group of superdoods sniffing on the PCs' trail, relatives who disbelieve the reports of death and are determined to bring the rats to justice.
In fact, I'd try to find a separate group of players to put in that role!
graemlins/file_23.gif If I were that GM I'd arrange to have a group of superdoods sniffing on the PCs' trail, relatives who disbelieve the reports of death and are determined to bring the rats to justice.
In fact, I'd try to find a separate group of players to put in that role!
far-trader
April 19th, 2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Straybow:
Matter annihilation would make sabotage too easy: a tiny 1 kg robot programmed to climb on at a starport and then jet off once in jump space could kill a zillion-ton ship with a 20MT explosion a hundred meters from the hull.
That guy with the orange sash would deliver a gigaton of revenge for being ejected from the airlock.
Bye, bye! tongue.gif I only said "much like that of a matter-antimatter collision" Straybow. It wouldn't have quite the same punch but the explosion would be significant, probably doing damage to the ship in the area around the airlock he was tossed out of and/or at the very least imposing an increased chance of misjump. A large enough mass is going to do a lot of damage, and if its enough to destroy a significant percentage of the jump grid you could lose the whole ship.
Sure such tactics as you suggest could and probably have been used. It would be rare that it was done though and probably rarer yet that it would actually work. The device you suggest would have to be small enough and cleverly engineered enough to avoid detection (unless the crew is lazy). As well it has to be sturdy enough to survive the huge energy surge/emp that is going to wash over it when the grid is powered up (at which time the computer is going to give the crew another chance to notice an anomaly in the energy field produced by the extra bit on the hull and decide to abort the Jump or take their chances).
At least that's how I'd do it, ymmv, whatever works for you is the right way smile.gif
Hmm, I do kind of like the idea of a gigaton of revenge from the grave graemlins/file_23.gif
Matter annihilation would make sabotage too easy: a tiny 1 kg robot programmed to climb on at a starport and then jet off once in jump space could kill a zillion-ton ship with a 20MT explosion a hundred meters from the hull.
That guy with the orange sash would deliver a gigaton of revenge for being ejected from the airlock.
Bye, bye! tongue.gif I only said "much like that of a matter-antimatter collision" Straybow. It wouldn't have quite the same punch but the explosion would be significant, probably doing damage to the ship in the area around the airlock he was tossed out of and/or at the very least imposing an increased chance of misjump. A large enough mass is going to do a lot of damage, and if its enough to destroy a significant percentage of the jump grid you could lose the whole ship.
Sure such tactics as you suggest could and probably have been used. It would be rare that it was done though and probably rarer yet that it would actually work. The device you suggest would have to be small enough and cleverly engineered enough to avoid detection (unless the crew is lazy). As well it has to be sturdy enough to survive the huge energy surge/emp that is going to wash over it when the grid is powered up (at which time the computer is going to give the crew another chance to notice an anomaly in the energy field produced by the extra bit on the hull and decide to abort the Jump or take their chances).
At least that's how I'd do it, ymmv, whatever works for you is the right way smile.gif
Hmm, I do kind of like the idea of a gigaton of revenge from the grave graemlins/file_23.gif
Andrew Boulton
April 19th, 2004, 02:31 PM
IMTU there's a burst of radiation when something hits the jump bubble, but unless the object is very large it's not enough to do any damage.
Keklas Rekobah
April 19th, 2004, 04:12 PM
IMTU:
An object that leaves the ship and remains within 1D meters of the hull will travel with the ship and precipitate into normal space unharmed.
An object that leaves the ship and goes beyond the 1D meter limit has exited the jump field, and will immediately precipitate into normal space. Unfortunately, since this is not a controlled precipitation, the object will enter realspace at such a high velocity that it is immediately converted to energy - gamma radiation, specifically. This is the reason for a lot of those Gamma Ray Bursters" that astronomers have been talking about (Unless the ship's exit point was the same as it's entry point, however).
This would be the ultimate energy weapon - a Gamma Ray Burst near a planet or ship would fry all life and most electronics. The trouble is that such a shot would be done blind - no way to tell where you are in jumpspace relative to realspace objects.
KR
An object that leaves the ship and remains within 1D meters of the hull will travel with the ship and precipitate into normal space unharmed.
An object that leaves the ship and goes beyond the 1D meter limit has exited the jump field, and will immediately precipitate into normal space. Unfortunately, since this is not a controlled precipitation, the object will enter realspace at such a high velocity that it is immediately converted to energy - gamma radiation, specifically. This is the reason for a lot of those Gamma Ray Bursters" that astronomers have been talking about (Unless the ship's exit point was the same as it's entry point, however).
This would be the ultimate energy weapon - a Gamma Ray Burst near a planet or ship would fry all life and most electronics. The trouble is that such a shot would be done blind - no way to tell where you are in jumpspace relative to realspace objects.
KR
DaveChase
April 19th, 2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Keklas Rekobah:
IMTU:
This would be the ultimate energy weapon - a Gamma Ray Burst near a planet or ship would fry all life and most electronics. The trouble is that such a shot would be done blind - no way to tell where you are in jumpspace relative to realspace objects.
KR What about if you calculate Jump 1 and a Jump 2 and make sure that Jump 2 just follows the same line that Jump 1 does. Jump 1 is calculated to put you next to the planet. Then you actually do Jump 2 with a missile (object) launch at the point you would normally come out of the Jump 1.
Near miss with Nuclear is still a hit ;)
I like the way Babylon 5 handles the jumps. Any space ship can travel through but only the big ones can form jump points.
Dave
IMTU:
This would be the ultimate energy weapon - a Gamma Ray Burst near a planet or ship would fry all life and most electronics. The trouble is that such a shot would be done blind - no way to tell where you are in jumpspace relative to realspace objects.
KR What about if you calculate Jump 1 and a Jump 2 and make sure that Jump 2 just follows the same line that Jump 1 does. Jump 1 is calculated to put you next to the planet. Then you actually do Jump 2 with a missile (object) launch at the point you would normally come out of the Jump 1.
Near miss with Nuclear is still a hit ;)
I like the way Babylon 5 handles the jumps. Any space ship can travel through but only the big ones can form jump points.
Dave
TheDS
April 19th, 2004, 05:17 PM
Well, if we're going to talk jump, I like limiting it to solar poles. It keeps the outer system mysterious and inaccessible and makes free fuel from comets usually not worth the effort, plus, a defense force actually has a chance to meet an enemy before it reaches the target planet; no more jumping to Oort cloud and accelerating an iceball to -0.1 dBc crap. Gas giants are now useful again, but only if they are closer to the sun than the mainworld (or if the mainworld orbits one) and going out to outer planets and belts is expensive. Why go to another system when you can just go further out in your own system and build a space station? With helio-centric jump points, it's cheaper to go to another system than to go out into the cold depths of your own system. Plus, no worries about relative velocity; you pick up the velocity of the star you jumped to.
But as to the topic, I think the SOM was the best source of info on this, and I continue to think of it as one of the best explanations for TU, irregardless of its decanonization.
In short, the jump field hovers 1 meter above the ship's surface. If there is a hole 1 meter or more in diameter, the field intrudes on the hull. Anything that gets expeled into jumpspace is simply lost forever. There are implications that the object does not actually vanish, but since jumpspace is effectively a universe where our natural laws are not necessarily observed, those things are probably coverted into gamma rays and dumped back into our universe somewhere.
If you toss something out and then retrieve it, like your hand while still attached to you, or something attached to a lanyard, it will come back unrecognizeable, if at all. There is an adventure somewhere, I think it was a TNE adventure (probably in Challenge), in which the players are on a ship which has a misjump, and there are several "paradoxes" caused by the jumpspace intruding on the hull or something.
Proximity to jumpspace makes you insane. It is generally permanent, and very bad if exposure is worsened. Usually you die, but insanity is a way to "survive" it. There's a group of people who supposedly charter ships and sit in the hold and watch jumpspace. I think this was in Regency Guide.
But anyway, take a look at SOM if you can; it's got a lot of nifty stuff in it. Other than that, well, it's hard to say. MWM has changed his mind about this stuff so often (or just plain forgot; it happens to us all) that no one really knows what "will" happen. Maybe you can Ask Avery?
But as to the topic, I think the SOM was the best source of info on this, and I continue to think of it as one of the best explanations for TU, irregardless of its decanonization.
In short, the jump field hovers 1 meter above the ship's surface. If there is a hole 1 meter or more in diameter, the field intrudes on the hull. Anything that gets expeled into jumpspace is simply lost forever. There are implications that the object does not actually vanish, but since jumpspace is effectively a universe where our natural laws are not necessarily observed, those things are probably coverted into gamma rays and dumped back into our universe somewhere.
If you toss something out and then retrieve it, like your hand while still attached to you, or something attached to a lanyard, it will come back unrecognizeable, if at all. There is an adventure somewhere, I think it was a TNE adventure (probably in Challenge), in which the players are on a ship which has a misjump, and there are several "paradoxes" caused by the jumpspace intruding on the hull or something.
Proximity to jumpspace makes you insane. It is generally permanent, and very bad if exposure is worsened. Usually you die, but insanity is a way to "survive" it. There's a group of people who supposedly charter ships and sit in the hold and watch jumpspace. I think this was in Regency Guide.
But anyway, take a look at SOM if you can; it's got a lot of nifty stuff in it. Other than that, well, it's hard to say. MWM has changed his mind about this stuff so often (or just plain forgot; it happens to us all) that no one really knows what "will" happen. Maybe you can Ask Avery?
Elliot
April 20th, 2004, 06:28 AM
The Special Horror edition of Challenge had HPPE's (jump space poltergeist/ghosts - i.e. the 'imprints' of people lost to jump space) as a metaphysical presence on an abandoned ship. I always disliked the idea, but it does extend the range of Traveller adventures...
Andrew Boulton
April 20th, 2004, 08:44 AM
There's a group of people who supposedly charter ships and sit in the hold and watch jumpspace. Disciples of the Bright Way, I think.
kafka47
April 20th, 2004, 08:58 AM
Disciples of the Bright Way were recently disbanded when it was discovered the High Elder Brother Mathej recieved his primary vision from a Vargr holosuite program which simulated the entire exercise.
The Imperial Navy warns Travellers that excessive staring at Jump Space fields can cause adverse effects to one's health. Documents regarding jumpspace research may be obtained through filing form 20343v-334-2 Access to Information of the Glisten Jumpspace Institute.
Naturally, the navy would be trying to hide something in this paper trail. What is it?
The Imperial Navy warns Travellers that excessive staring at Jump Space fields can cause adverse effects to one's health. Documents regarding jumpspace research may be obtained through filing form 20343v-334-2 Access to Information of the Glisten Jumpspace Institute.
Naturally, the navy would be trying to hide something in this paper trail. What is it?
Baron Saarthuran
April 20th, 2004, 03:11 PM
For me, I like it as an Abstract Peril. Something like in the old sailing movies where one guy goes crazy and starts drinking seawater, etc. Who can define the undefineable? Jump Space for me causes madness, but not a madness brought on by demons and such, just plain ol' brain overload madness... going out in it is just plain ol' death...
kafka47
April 28th, 2004, 11:36 AM
TheDS:
I also found the TNE adventure that you alluded to in Challenge#75 http://www.travellerbibliography.org/challenge/75.jpg
...simply called the Madness Effect dealing with the strange effects of Jumpspace on the crew & passengers when exposed to the "strange" physics of Jumpspace.
All the allusion to "strange" physics makes me think that Traveller is inspired by some of the fiction of the Pulps that dealt with weird science taking us back to Lovecraft country...
I also found the TNE adventure that you alluded to in Challenge#75 http://www.travellerbibliography.org/challenge/75.jpg
...simply called the Madness Effect dealing with the strange effects of Jumpspace on the crew & passengers when exposed to the "strange" physics of Jumpspace.
All the allusion to "strange" physics makes me think that Traveller is inspired by some of the fiction of the Pulps that dealt with weird science taking us back to Lovecraft country...
Jame
April 28th, 2004, 12:10 PM
Why would anyone open a door in space anyways? One of the outside doors, that is, not an indoor hatch.
Andrew Boulton
April 28th, 2004, 01:20 PM
Because it's there.
hirch duckfinder
April 28th, 2004, 02:38 PM
----"Why would anyone open a door in space anyways? One of the outside doors, that is, not an indoor hatch."
to get rid of someone annoying . for good . graemlins/toast.gif
ever been to liar's oath ? i blame mjd......
;)
to get rid of someone annoying . for good . graemlins/toast.gif
ever been to liar's oath ? i blame mjd......
;)
Jame
April 30th, 2004, 09:23 AM
I'd go kick MJD a few times for you, but I have a feeling you're a lot closer than I am. So you should do it.
And just 'cause it's there doesn't mean you do it. I mean, you pet a cat, but you don't open an airlock, especially in Jump.
And just 'cause it's there doesn't mean you do it. I mean, you pet a cat, but you don't open an airlock, especially in Jump.
Andrew Boulton
April 30th, 2004, 10:48 AM
PCs do. Trust me, I've seen 'em do it.
Spiderfish
April 30th, 2004, 07:53 PM
Problem is most teenagers wouldent be able to play an insane character. Though to be honest would they need to make the effort?
Not that i ever play with teenagers.
Not that i ever play with teenagers.
kaladorn
April 30th, 2004, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan:
Who can define the undefineable? Jump Space for me causes madness, Kind of like the thought of Ravening Hordes of Solomani Proletarians out to dis-enfeof the Good Baron.... !
;)
Who can define the undefineable? Jump Space for me causes madness, Kind of like the thought of Ravening Hordes of Solomani Proletarians out to dis-enfeof the Good Baron.... !
;)
Spiderfish
May 1st, 2004, 03:47 PM
JAG is part of the USN right they deal with legal issues and stuff?
Pity really if you have to pressgang the "yoofs" into play. But hey you might find one with decent roleplaying potential (as in he will contiue past the age of 17).
Pity really if you have to pressgang the "yoofs" into play. But hey you might find one with decent roleplaying potential (as in he will contiue past the age of 17).
Andrew Boulton
May 2nd, 2004, 07:27 AM
We were all young once...
Gaming Glen
May 2nd, 2004, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Spiderfish:
JAG is part of the USN right they deal with legal issues and stuff?
Pity really if you have to pressgang the "yoofs" into play. But hey you might find one with decent roleplaying potential (as in he will contiue past the age of 17). JAG = Judge Advocate General; not sure what the words means exactly but it is about military legal issues. There is, or was, a show on the TV in the USA called JAG; the star was a JAG officer and Naval pilot that could do almost any mission type (typical Hollywood). My friend loves the show.
Glen
JAG is part of the USN right they deal with legal issues and stuff?
Pity really if you have to pressgang the "yoofs" into play. But hey you might find one with decent roleplaying potential (as in he will contiue past the age of 17). JAG = Judge Advocate General; not sure what the words means exactly but it is about military legal issues. There is, or was, a show on the TV in the USA called JAG; the star was a JAG officer and Naval pilot that could do almost any mission type (typical Hollywood). My friend loves the show.
Glen
clementk
May 2nd, 2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Gaming Glen:
There is, or was, a show on the TV in the USA called JAG; the star was a JAG officer and Naval pilot that could do almost any mission type (typical Hollywood). My friend loves the show.
Still on (http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jag/) and in syndication now IIRC. I think the premise was that he used to be a pilot. (i.e. he doesn't hop into his jet, bust the bad guys, and then make the case against them in court)
/me shrugs
There are plenty of courtroom only tv shows. If you're going to make a military based lawyer show you might as well show more than just a courtroom. Fairly watchable for a recent network tv show* the few times I've watched it. The show has lasted for 8 seasons though from what little I've seen of recent years they've ramped up the soap opera and jingoism a notch or two.
Still it should have some fodder for a game. Just don't expect it to be a documentary about how JAG works.
Casey
* and I like almost no recent / current network tv
There is, or was, a show on the TV in the USA called JAG; the star was a JAG officer and Naval pilot that could do almost any mission type (typical Hollywood). My friend loves the show.
Still on (http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jag/) and in syndication now IIRC. I think the premise was that he used to be a pilot. (i.e. he doesn't hop into his jet, bust the bad guys, and then make the case against them in court)
/me shrugs
There are plenty of courtroom only tv shows. If you're going to make a military based lawyer show you might as well show more than just a courtroom. Fairly watchable for a recent network tv show* the few times I've watched it. The show has lasted for 8 seasons though from what little I've seen of recent years they've ramped up the soap opera and jingoism a notch or two.
Still it should have some fodder for a game. Just don't expect it to be a documentary about how JAG works.
Casey
* and I like almost no recent / current network tv
Spud
May 10th, 2004, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by far-trader:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Straybow:
Matter annihilation would make sabotage too easy: a tiny 1 kg robot programmed to climb on at a starport and then jet off once in jump space could kill a zillion-ton ship with a 20MT explosion a hundred meters from the hull.
That guy with the orange sash would deliver a gigaton of revenge for being ejected from the airlock.
Bye, bye! tongue.gif I only said "much like that of a matter-antimatter collision" Straybow. It wouldn't have quite the same punch but the explosion would be significant, probably doing damage to the ship in the area around the airlock he was tossed out of and/or at the very least imposing an increased chance of misjump. A large enough mass is going to do a lot of damage, and if its enough to destroy a significant percentage of the jump grid you could lose the whole ship.
Sure such tactics as you suggest could and probably have been used. It would be rare that it was done though and probably rarer yet that it would actually work. The device you suggest would have to be small enough and cleverly engineered enough to avoid detection (unless the crew is lazy). As well it has to be sturdy enough to survive the huge energy surge/emp that is going to wash over it when the grid is powered up (at which time the computer is going to give the crew another chance to notice an anomaly in the energy field produced by the extra bit on the hull and decide to abort the Jump or take their chances).
At least that's how I'd do it, ymmv, whatever works for you is the right way smile.gif
Hmm, I do kind of like the idea of a gigaton of revenge from the grave graemlins/file_23.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Gearhead I am not, but I think I could comeup with a device using stored kinetic energy to propel maybe 2Kgs three meters away from the hull after a delay of a day and a half. A windup clockwork for the delay, compressed gas for the thrust; this is pretty mature lo-tech stuff. Put it all into a small selfstick package... If it were that dramatic in its effect, it would have been done already. (IMHO)
I also reference David Weber's excellent Honor Harrington books, specifically the effects of "bring up a ship's boat wedge in a boat bay".
It sounded like it might be similar to having an FA-18 start up and hit its afterburner on the hanger deck of the SSS Carl Vinson. In my experience with people, not to say pilots or rpg'rs, if it could be used to deadly advantage, it would have been already.
Now, if you open the door and then stick your hand into the pretty colors, well - I figure you've already flunked the great big IQ test that is life.
For the guy in the Orange sash, kill him now, space him in 'normal space'. [I'll bet that will become a bigger oxymoron than military justice!]
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Straybow:
Matter annihilation would make sabotage too easy: a tiny 1 kg robot programmed to climb on at a starport and then jet off once in jump space could kill a zillion-ton ship with a 20MT explosion a hundred meters from the hull.
That guy with the orange sash would deliver a gigaton of revenge for being ejected from the airlock.
Bye, bye! tongue.gif I only said "much like that of a matter-antimatter collision" Straybow. It wouldn't have quite the same punch but the explosion would be significant, probably doing damage to the ship in the area around the airlock he was tossed out of and/or at the very least imposing an increased chance of misjump. A large enough mass is going to do a lot of damage, and if its enough to destroy a significant percentage of the jump grid you could lose the whole ship.
Sure such tactics as you suggest could and probably have been used. It would be rare that it was done though and probably rarer yet that it would actually work. The device you suggest would have to be small enough and cleverly engineered enough to avoid detection (unless the crew is lazy). As well it has to be sturdy enough to survive the huge energy surge/emp that is going to wash over it when the grid is powered up (at which time the computer is going to give the crew another chance to notice an anomaly in the energy field produced by the extra bit on the hull and decide to abort the Jump or take their chances).
At least that's how I'd do it, ymmv, whatever works for you is the right way smile.gif
Hmm, I do kind of like the idea of a gigaton of revenge from the grave graemlins/file_23.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Gearhead I am not, but I think I could comeup with a device using stored kinetic energy to propel maybe 2Kgs three meters away from the hull after a delay of a day and a half. A windup clockwork for the delay, compressed gas for the thrust; this is pretty mature lo-tech stuff. Put it all into a small selfstick package... If it were that dramatic in its effect, it would have been done already. (IMHO)
I also reference David Weber's excellent Honor Harrington books, specifically the effects of "bring up a ship's boat wedge in a boat bay".
It sounded like it might be similar to having an FA-18 start up and hit its afterburner on the hanger deck of the SSS Carl Vinson. In my experience with people, not to say pilots or rpg'rs, if it could be used to deadly advantage, it would have been already.
Now, if you open the door and then stick your hand into the pretty colors, well - I figure you've already flunked the great big IQ test that is life.
For the guy in the Orange sash, kill him now, space him in 'normal space'. [I'll bet that will become a bigger oxymoron than military justice!]
wesleybrucecanberra
August 1st, 2004, 09:11 PM
Actually the description of jump space in the 'Starship operatiors manual' mentions bad things happening but its more to do with comming into close contact with:
A) plasma, super heated hydrogen moving at Mach 10. The plasma buffers jump space pushing it away from the hull. The jump grid controls the plasma.
B) Massive time dilation. Time gets weird over very short distances. Your heads running at ten days per second while your hearts running at the normal rate.
C) the hull, someone thorwn out may get bownced back at mach ten.
A) plasma, super heated hydrogen moving at Mach 10. The plasma buffers jump space pushing it away from the hull. The jump grid controls the plasma.
B) Massive time dilation. Time gets weird over very short distances. Your heads running at ten days per second while your hearts running at the normal rate.
C) the hull, someone thorwn out may get bownced back at mach ten.
aramis
August 2nd, 2004, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by hirch duckfinder:
what happens when you open a door into jump space and something or someone drops out ???
anyone got an opinion , or even better a canonical explaination of what would have happened if i did ???
thanks in advance .
hirch . Really Quite simple... Provided they neither come within 30 cm of the grey wall which defined the end of normal space within the jump bubble, nor stare at the undultions and hints of color, nothing.
Prolonged exposure within 30 cm of the wall? going to bend the mind. Part of it is exposure to radiation form the hull grid, part is that radiation interacting wiht particles whcih can't exist fully inside the bubble, but only in that outer 30 cm...
If you push a stick 3m long so that 1m is past the grey, when you pull it back, it will have a nearly perfectly smooth far end and be a 2m pole... If you stick your hand out the grey wall, your hand dissassociates, as it's no longer able to maintain nuclear cohesion. In rare cases, it may be precipitated back to N-space along the route... usually in chunks under 50grams... more normally bits in the 1-2 g range.
If the door, however, is more than 2m across, the bubble now is compromised, and that grey wall will push in.... and at about 2.01m, that bubble fills all bout the outter 1m shell of the ship. No misjump (IMTU, NOTHING will cause a misjump once the transition occurs, but a grid failure may result in destruction and arrival on-time, on-target.... as a hollow shell. Or in multiple parts, if cut carefully...).
Effectively, J-space hates normal matter, so anything not in a J-bubble gets nearly instantly precipitated out. It doesn't matter if it was part of something larger or not, J-space takes what it can grab, and hucks it back to N-space nearly instantly.
So, IMTU, your sashed non-firend would not leave a body... but might leave a bunch of smatters which someone in N-space might find... as J-space fillets him like japanese ginger.
what happens when you open a door into jump space and something or someone drops out ???
anyone got an opinion , or even better a canonical explaination of what would have happened if i did ???
thanks in advance .
hirch . Really Quite simple... Provided they neither come within 30 cm of the grey wall which defined the end of normal space within the jump bubble, nor stare at the undultions and hints of color, nothing.
Prolonged exposure within 30 cm of the wall? going to bend the mind. Part of it is exposure to radiation form the hull grid, part is that radiation interacting wiht particles whcih can't exist fully inside the bubble, but only in that outer 30 cm...
If you push a stick 3m long so that 1m is past the grey, when you pull it back, it will have a nearly perfectly smooth far end and be a 2m pole... If you stick your hand out the grey wall, your hand dissassociates, as it's no longer able to maintain nuclear cohesion. In rare cases, it may be precipitated back to N-space along the route... usually in chunks under 50grams... more normally bits in the 1-2 g range.
If the door, however, is more than 2m across, the bubble now is compromised, and that grey wall will push in.... and at about 2.01m, that bubble fills all bout the outter 1m shell of the ship. No misjump (IMTU, NOTHING will cause a misjump once the transition occurs, but a grid failure may result in destruction and arrival on-time, on-target.... as a hollow shell. Or in multiple parts, if cut carefully...).
Effectively, J-space hates normal matter, so anything not in a J-bubble gets nearly instantly precipitated out. It doesn't matter if it was part of something larger or not, J-space takes what it can grab, and hucks it back to N-space nearly instantly.
So, IMTU, your sashed non-firend would not leave a body... but might leave a bunch of smatters which someone in N-space might find... as J-space fillets him like japanese ginger.
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