Supplement Four
March 20th, 2007, 06:29 PM
I'm reading a new Star Trek series set in the classic era. Typically, Trek books are trash, but there are a few diamonds in the rough.
This is one of them.
It's a new series: STAR TREK Vanguard.
The first book is Harbinger by David Mack. Book #2 is Summon The Thunder by Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore. Book #3 is due out in May, called Reap The Whirlwind, also by David Mack.
This is good stuff, people.
We're talking classic Trek here...but modernized a bit.
I call it "classic" because, not only is it set during the Kirk & Spock TV series, but it really captures that wonder and feel on the original series.
I call it "modernized a bit" because the books are darker than what you're used to in Trek. We're talkin' half crazed lesbian Vulcans (no kidding), backstabbing for positions in Star Fleet, Star Fleet officers committing adultry, the cold war with the Klingons, spies....
And all of this wrapped around an interesting "Trek" plot, the basis of which is:
The USS Constellation (Commodore Decker's ship--which will be destroyed in the classic Trek episode "The Doomsday Machine"), on patrol in the Tarus Reach near Tholian space, discovers something odd during it's routine exploration/mapping mission....
"Report," Decker said, cutting straight to business.
Masada reached behind his ear as if to scratch, then gave an almost absentminded tug on his ponytail as he straightened and pivoted toward Decker. "We were running a routine gene-sequence scan on the biosamples froom Ravanar IV," he said. "Most were nothing to write home about." He geestured for Takeshewada to look at the sensor data for herself. "Then we found this."
Decker tried to be patient, but at times like this it was hard. "Guillermo, please don't keep me in suspense."
"Sorry, sir. It's a gene sequence unlike anything we've ever seen before. My best uess would be that it has several million chemical base pairs, and it's more complex than simple G-A-T-C. It has molecules we're still trying to identify."
Takeshewada lifted her gaze from the blue-gray sensor hood. Her already fair complexion looke paler than normal. "That's incredible," she said.
Folding his arms across his chest, Decker said to Masada, "Where did it come from? Some kind of uber-life-form?"
"Hardly," the science officer said. "From a simple mold."
"Simple?" Decker shook his head, as much in disbelief as in sheer wonderment at the never-ending tricks the universe had up its proverbial sleeve. "That's a lot of DNA for something I'd scrape off my breakfast. Speaking of which--" He turned toward his yeoman, who happened to be walking past. "Lawford, get me some coffee, will you?"
"Lawford transferred to the Yorktown two weeks ago, sir," the yeoman said. "I'm Guthrie."
Decker squinted in disapproval. "And that has precisely what to do with my coffee?"
"Nothing, sir."
The commodore pointed the yeoman toward the food slot. "Milk, no sugar."
"I know, sir."
"Thanks, Lawford."
"Guthrie, sir."
"Whatever." Decker turned back toward the science station while the yeoman plodded away, muttering quietly. Returning his attention to Masada, Decker said, "Why would mold need that much genetic information?"
"I don't think it does," Masada said.
Decker was getting annoyed. "That's what I'm saying."
"No sir," Masada said. "What I mean is, I think only a very small portion of the genetic string has anything to do with the mold itself. The rest is...well, just there."
Takeshewada tilted her head in a way that implied she found Masada's answer less than satisfactory. "But what does it do, Guillermo?"
The science officer's eyes widened as his lips tightened into a thin line and his shoulders rounded into a shrug. "No idea. I can tell you that it's big, but other than that..." He just shook his head.
"And out tradition of excellence continues," Decker said with a sour inflection. His darkening mood was brightened by the arrival of his coffee. He accepted the mug from Guthrie, then turned immediately back toward Masada. "How soon can you finish some testsand get me a real report?"
"I'm not sure I can," Masada said. "Our lab's good, bu it's not this good. We're gonna have to send all of this--the samples, the scans, the whole kit and kaboodle--back to Starfleet Command and let them handle it."
Decker's shoulders slumped with disappointment. "Are you serious? We make a once-in-a-lifetime find, and you're telling me we have to punt?"
"I'm afraid so so, sir."
And, with that, we're off to an exceptional classic Trek tale.
It's just a damn good book, starting a damn fine series.
The main characters are brand new. Sure, Kirk, Spock and other characters from the original TV series make cameos (like Commodore Decker or Dr. M'Benga, the Vulcan specialist, from a couple of episodes in the classic series), but the focus is on all-new characters.
I highly recommend this book series. It's what Star Trek Enterprise should have been. It's definitely "Trek", but it's a type of "Trek" that would result if the writers of the new Battlestar Galactica got a hold of the franchise.
Good stuff.
Check it out.
Here's a link to the Amazon page for the first book in the series: Star Trek Vanguard - Harbinger (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1416507744/ref=cap_pdp_dp_1/102-0662450-0383345)
-S4
This is one of them.
It's a new series: STAR TREK Vanguard.
The first book is Harbinger by David Mack. Book #2 is Summon The Thunder by Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore. Book #3 is due out in May, called Reap The Whirlwind, also by David Mack.
This is good stuff, people.
We're talking classic Trek here...but modernized a bit.
I call it "classic" because, not only is it set during the Kirk & Spock TV series, but it really captures that wonder and feel on the original series.
I call it "modernized a bit" because the books are darker than what you're used to in Trek. We're talkin' half crazed lesbian Vulcans (no kidding), backstabbing for positions in Star Fleet, Star Fleet officers committing adultry, the cold war with the Klingons, spies....
And all of this wrapped around an interesting "Trek" plot, the basis of which is:
The USS Constellation (Commodore Decker's ship--which will be destroyed in the classic Trek episode "The Doomsday Machine"), on patrol in the Tarus Reach near Tholian space, discovers something odd during it's routine exploration/mapping mission....
"Report," Decker said, cutting straight to business.
Masada reached behind his ear as if to scratch, then gave an almost absentminded tug on his ponytail as he straightened and pivoted toward Decker. "We were running a routine gene-sequence scan on the biosamples froom Ravanar IV," he said. "Most were nothing to write home about." He geestured for Takeshewada to look at the sensor data for herself. "Then we found this."
Decker tried to be patient, but at times like this it was hard. "Guillermo, please don't keep me in suspense."
"Sorry, sir. It's a gene sequence unlike anything we've ever seen before. My best uess would be that it has several million chemical base pairs, and it's more complex than simple G-A-T-C. It has molecules we're still trying to identify."
Takeshewada lifted her gaze from the blue-gray sensor hood. Her already fair complexion looke paler than normal. "That's incredible," she said.
Folding his arms across his chest, Decker said to Masada, "Where did it come from? Some kind of uber-life-form?"
"Hardly," the science officer said. "From a simple mold."
"Simple?" Decker shook his head, as much in disbelief as in sheer wonderment at the never-ending tricks the universe had up its proverbial sleeve. "That's a lot of DNA for something I'd scrape off my breakfast. Speaking of which--" He turned toward his yeoman, who happened to be walking past. "Lawford, get me some coffee, will you?"
"Lawford transferred to the Yorktown two weeks ago, sir," the yeoman said. "I'm Guthrie."
Decker squinted in disapproval. "And that has precisely what to do with my coffee?"
"Nothing, sir."
The commodore pointed the yeoman toward the food slot. "Milk, no sugar."
"I know, sir."
"Thanks, Lawford."
"Guthrie, sir."
"Whatever." Decker turned back toward the science station while the yeoman plodded away, muttering quietly. Returning his attention to Masada, Decker said, "Why would mold need that much genetic information?"
"I don't think it does," Masada said.
Decker was getting annoyed. "That's what I'm saying."
"No sir," Masada said. "What I mean is, I think only a very small portion of the genetic string has anything to do with the mold itself. The rest is...well, just there."
Takeshewada tilted her head in a way that implied she found Masada's answer less than satisfactory. "But what does it do, Guillermo?"
The science officer's eyes widened as his lips tightened into a thin line and his shoulders rounded into a shrug. "No idea. I can tell you that it's big, but other than that..." He just shook his head.
"And out tradition of excellence continues," Decker said with a sour inflection. His darkening mood was brightened by the arrival of his coffee. He accepted the mug from Guthrie, then turned immediately back toward Masada. "How soon can you finish some testsand get me a real report?"
"I'm not sure I can," Masada said. "Our lab's good, bu it's not this good. We're gonna have to send all of this--the samples, the scans, the whole kit and kaboodle--back to Starfleet Command and let them handle it."
Decker's shoulders slumped with disappointment. "Are you serious? We make a once-in-a-lifetime find, and you're telling me we have to punt?"
"I'm afraid so so, sir."
And, with that, we're off to an exceptional classic Trek tale.
It's just a damn good book, starting a damn fine series.
The main characters are brand new. Sure, Kirk, Spock and other characters from the original TV series make cameos (like Commodore Decker or Dr. M'Benga, the Vulcan specialist, from a couple of episodes in the classic series), but the focus is on all-new characters.
I highly recommend this book series. It's what Star Trek Enterprise should have been. It's definitely "Trek", but it's a type of "Trek" that would result if the writers of the new Battlestar Galactica got a hold of the franchise.
Good stuff.
Check it out.
Here's a link to the Amazon page for the first book in the series: Star Trek Vanguard - Harbinger (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1416507744/ref=cap_pdp_dp_1/102-0662450-0383345)
-S4
BlackBat242
March 20th, 2007, 08:20 PM
The first book has Enterprise stopping by to finish her repairs from passing through the "Galactic energy barrier" in the "second pilot", and before the first regular series episode.
In other words, very early Original Series Trek.
They even still have one of the Warp 4.5 DAEDALUS class ships in service (heavily refitted of course)!
Vanguard is placed in a "neutral" area bounded by Tholians & Klingons as well as the Federation.
In other words, very early Original Series Trek.
They even still have one of the Warp 4.5 DAEDALUS class ships in service (heavily refitted of course)!
Vanguard is placed in a "neutral" area bounded by Tholians & Klingons as well as the Federation.
Supplement Four
March 20th, 2007, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by BlackBat242:
The first book has Enterprise stopping by to finish her repairs from passing through the "Galactic energy barrier" in the "second pilot", and before the first regular series episode.Yep. Kirk has just been promoted to Captain, the Enterprise his first command.
That second pilot you mention is titled "Where No Man Has Gone Before". It's the one where Gary Mitchell, Kirk's best friend, develops god-like powers after going through the energy barrier.
With Mitchell's death, Spock is promoted to first officer--and this is where Kirk & Co. do their cameo in the book. Kirk is "feeling out" his new first officer.
In other words, very early Original Series Trek.Yep. Set in 2265. Once Kirk leaves the Vangaurd station, they're headed for the adventure called "The Corbomite Maneuver", which happens either off-stage of the book or just after the book ends.
BTW, that first pilot that was not originally aired was called "The Cage" featuring Captain Christopher Pike, Kirk's predecessor. "The Cage" was re-edited into Classic Trek's only two-part, two-hour episode, shown later in Classic Trek's run.
Notice the older uniforms shown in "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before". Those are the only two episodes where you see those older, turtle-neck uniforms, before Starfleet changes to the ones we're all familiar with worn by Classic Trek's Kirk, Spock, McCoy, et. al.
David Mack pays so much attention to detail in the first book in the Vanguard series that he actually mentions this. Commodore Reyes, Vanguard's commanding officer (and main character in the series), has his thoughts drift to Starfleet's ability to change the uniforms every so often.
Mack doesn't beat you over the head with it. It' just there. If you're a Trekkie, then you know who M'Benga is. You know who Commodore Decker is (not only the commanding officer of the Constellation before it got swallowed by the doomsday machine, but also father to Captain Wil Decker, commanding officer of the Enterprise at the beginning of Star Trek The Motion Picture).
If you don't recognize any of these people, Mack doesn't tell you--and he doesn't need to. It's "there" for those who know, but what those characters do later in the Trek series and movies does not affect the plot of the book.
I loved it. Mack sure knows his Trek-stuff.
I believe, if you're a true Trek fan, you'll love this book too.
-S4
The first book has Enterprise stopping by to finish her repairs from passing through the "Galactic energy barrier" in the "second pilot", and before the first regular series episode.Yep. Kirk has just been promoted to Captain, the Enterprise his first command.
That second pilot you mention is titled "Where No Man Has Gone Before". It's the one where Gary Mitchell, Kirk's best friend, develops god-like powers after going through the energy barrier.
With Mitchell's death, Spock is promoted to first officer--and this is where Kirk & Co. do their cameo in the book. Kirk is "feeling out" his new first officer.
In other words, very early Original Series Trek.Yep. Set in 2265. Once Kirk leaves the Vangaurd station, they're headed for the adventure called "The Corbomite Maneuver", which happens either off-stage of the book or just after the book ends.
BTW, that first pilot that was not originally aired was called "The Cage" featuring Captain Christopher Pike, Kirk's predecessor. "The Cage" was re-edited into Classic Trek's only two-part, two-hour episode, shown later in Classic Trek's run.
Notice the older uniforms shown in "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before". Those are the only two episodes where you see those older, turtle-neck uniforms, before Starfleet changes to the ones we're all familiar with worn by Classic Trek's Kirk, Spock, McCoy, et. al.
David Mack pays so much attention to detail in the first book in the Vanguard series that he actually mentions this. Commodore Reyes, Vanguard's commanding officer (and main character in the series), has his thoughts drift to Starfleet's ability to change the uniforms every so often.
Mack doesn't beat you over the head with it. It' just there. If you're a Trekkie, then you know who M'Benga is. You know who Commodore Decker is (not only the commanding officer of the Constellation before it got swallowed by the doomsday machine, but also father to Captain Wil Decker, commanding officer of the Enterprise at the beginning of Star Trek The Motion Picture).
If you don't recognize any of these people, Mack doesn't tell you--and he doesn't need to. It's "there" for those who know, but what those characters do later in the Trek series and movies does not affect the plot of the book.
I loved it. Mack sure knows his Trek-stuff.
I believe, if you're a true Trek fan, you'll love this book too.
-S4
Andrew Boulton
March 21st, 2007, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Kirk is "feeling out" his new first officer.The word "slash" will not pass my lips...
Kirk is "feeling out" his new first officer.The word "slash" will not pass my lips...
Outsider
March 21st, 2007, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Kirk is "feeling out" his new first officer.The word "slash" will not pass my lips... </font>[/QUOTE]Would "sizing up" be a more appropriate term perhaps...? Heh....
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Kirk is "feeling out" his new first officer.The word "slash" will not pass my lips... </font>[/QUOTE]Would "sizing up" be a more appropriate term perhaps...? Heh....
rancke
March 21st, 2007, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Supplement Four:
With Mitchell's death, Spock is promoted to first officer--and this is where Kirk & Co. do their cameo in the book. Kirk is "feeling out" his new first officer.Heh! I remember, many, many years ago, getting a set of Enterprise blueprints (official, mind you) with information about the various crew positions and ranks and noticing that the Enterprise is supposed to have an XO for a first officer (in addition to and outranking Science Officer Spock) and also chief Navigation and Communication officers with the rank of Lt. Commander, outranking Sulu and Uhura. I concocted the theory that those three officers spent all their time stuffed away on the auxiliary bridge waiting to take over when some enemy with two brain cells to rub together took out the extremely exposed main bridge ;) .
Or maybe the Enterprise lost those three officers shortly before the first season started and Starfleet bureaucracy took over three years to get around to replacing them...
Hans
With Mitchell's death, Spock is promoted to first officer--and this is where Kirk & Co. do their cameo in the book. Kirk is "feeling out" his new first officer.Heh! I remember, many, many years ago, getting a set of Enterprise blueprints (official, mind you) with information about the various crew positions and ranks and noticing that the Enterprise is supposed to have an XO for a first officer (in addition to and outranking Science Officer Spock) and also chief Navigation and Communication officers with the rank of Lt. Commander, outranking Sulu and Uhura. I concocted the theory that those three officers spent all their time stuffed away on the auxiliary bridge waiting to take over when some enemy with two brain cells to rub together took out the extremely exposed main bridge ;) .
Or maybe the Enterprise lost those three officers shortly before the first season started and Starfleet bureaucracy took over three years to get around to replacing them...
Hans
MR TEK
March 21st, 2007, 03:27 PM
My star trek Fu is low these days, but do I not recall at least passing refernces that Spock was filling two positions.
As I recall it was an unusual occurance, but on of the oddities of being so far out from the central command, and semi-autonomus.
While several episodes touched on Star fleet having tight control in specific situations (, primarily when established treaties were involved,) Kirk had almost unlimited autonomy in first contact, and encounters outside esablished treaties.
I could be filtering some fan stuff or other non francise sources, but I thought that issue had come up at somme point.
As I recall it was an unusual occurance, but on of the oddities of being so far out from the central command, and semi-autonomus.
While several episodes touched on Star fleet having tight control in specific situations (, primarily when established treaties were involved,) Kirk had almost unlimited autonomy in first contact, and encounters outside esablished treaties.
I could be filtering some fan stuff or other non francise sources, but I thought that issue had come up at somme point.
Supplement Four
March 21st, 2007, 10:38 PM
Anybody recognize Commander Clark Terrel, first officer of the scout USS Sagittarius? That's the captain of the USS Reliant in The Wrath of Khan--the one who commits suicide with a phaser when the roach-bug-things are in his ear.
The Sagittarius is an "Archer" class scout, obviously a nod to the Enterprise TV series. And the USS Bombay is a Miranda class cruiser. The Mirandas were upgraded to the Reliant class later in the Trek timeline (so the Miranda's have the basic hull design of the Reliant).
I always liked that design.
The Sagittarius is an "Archer" class scout, obviously a nod to the Enterprise TV series. And the USS Bombay is a Miranda class cruiser. The Mirandas were upgraded to the Reliant class later in the Trek timeline (so the Miranda's have the basic hull design of the Reliant).
I always liked that design.
Supplement Four
March 21st, 2007, 10:41 PM
Also note that the Enterprise Chief Medical Officer is Dr. Piper, who was Christopher Pike's CMO in "The Cage".
We see McCoy come aboard Enterprise in the first novel.
We see McCoy come aboard Enterprise in the first novel.
selunatic2397
March 30th, 2007, 03:48 PM
Thanks for the tip Supplement Four!!!
I devoured the first book in under a day...
have just started the second book...
and am impatiently waiting for book three in May.
These books are a gold mine!
Thanks again! smile.gif
I devoured the first book in under a day...
have just started the second book...
and am impatiently waiting for book three in May.
These books are a gold mine!
Thanks again! smile.gif
Supplement Four
April 7th, 2007, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by selunatic2397:
These books are a gold mine!Yeah, they're pretty doggone good reads. They were a surprise.
If you like that series, try this one book, by John Ford (who's written Traveller). It's not just a good Trek book. It's one of the best scifi books I've ever read. It's definitely under-rated.
Check it out:
THE FINAL REFLECTION by John M. Ford (http://www.amazon.com/Final-Reflection-Star-Trek-Original/dp/0671743546/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-9506426-5633730?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175977793&sr=1-2)
These books are a gold mine!Yeah, they're pretty doggone good reads. They were a surprise.
If you like that series, try this one book, by John Ford (who's written Traveller). It's not just a good Trek book. It's one of the best scifi books I've ever read. It's definitely under-rated.
Check it out:
THE FINAL REFLECTION by John M. Ford (http://www.amazon.com/Final-Reflection-Star-Trek-Original/dp/0671743546/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-9506426-5633730?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175977793&sr=1-2)
mbrinkhues
April 7th, 2007, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Anybody recognize Commander Clark Terrel, first officer of the scout USS Sagittarius? That's the captain of the USS Reliant in The Wrath of Khan--the one who commits suicide with a phaser when the roach-bug-things are in his ear.
The Sagittarius is an "Archer" class scout, obviously a nod to the Enterprise TV series. And the USS Bombay is a Miranda class cruiser. The Mirandas were upgraded to the Reliant class later in the Trek timeline (so the Miranda's have the basic hull design of the Reliant).
I always liked that design. I have to disagree on both:
The ARCHER class is around in the "expanded" universe for quite some time, appearing in at least one of the old TOS novels published shortly before TNE hit the screens
The "Reliant" actually is an outfit-kit of the infamous "Mobile Ablative Armor" aka Miranda class, at least most canon sources as well as the novel make her one. The "rollbar" on top has a drydock-exchangeabel module that carries mission-configureabel equipment.
Anybody recognize Commander Clark Terrel, first officer of the scout USS Sagittarius? That's the captain of the USS Reliant in The Wrath of Khan--the one who commits suicide with a phaser when the roach-bug-things are in his ear.
The Sagittarius is an "Archer" class scout, obviously a nod to the Enterprise TV series. And the USS Bombay is a Miranda class cruiser. The Mirandas were upgraded to the Reliant class later in the Trek timeline (so the Miranda's have the basic hull design of the Reliant).
I always liked that design. I have to disagree on both:
The ARCHER class is around in the "expanded" universe for quite some time, appearing in at least one of the old TOS novels published shortly before TNE hit the screens
The "Reliant" actually is an outfit-kit of the infamous "Mobile Ablative Armor" aka Miranda class, at least most canon sources as well as the novel make her one. The "rollbar" on top has a drydock-exchangeabel module that carries mission-configureabel equipment.
Supplement Four
April 29th, 2007, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
The ARCHER class is around in the "expanded" universe for quite some time, appearing in at least one of the old TOS novels published shortly before TNE hit the screens Well maybe there's more than one Archer class in the Star Trek universe. Not unheard of, that.
The Archer class in these new novels is new, though. It was specifically designed for the series.
HERE'S (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:V3_reapwhirlwind.jpg#file) a picture of the Archer class scout vessel featured in these novels.
The ARCHER class is around in the "expanded" universe for quite some time, appearing in at least one of the old TOS novels published shortly before TNE hit the screens Well maybe there's more than one Archer class in the Star Trek universe. Not unheard of, that.
The Archer class in these new novels is new, though. It was specifically designed for the series.
HERE'S (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:V3_reapwhirlwind.jpg#file) a picture of the Archer class scout vessel featured in these novels.
Supplement Four
April 29th, 2007, 06:13 PM
For you Trek fans out there, there are many "smaller" characters that are used in this series, expanding upon the characters.
Click on the link to see a picture and read info about the characters.
David Mack really did his homework, fitting this story into the Classic Trek Universe.
Excellent Read.
CLARK TERRELL (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Clark_Terrell)
COMMODORE MATT DECKER (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Matt_Decker)
FIRST OFFICER MASADA of the USS CONSTELLATION (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Masada)
GARY MITCHELL (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Gary_Mitchell)
DR. MARK PIPER of the USS ENTERPRISE (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Mark_Piper)
LIEUTENTANT D'AMATO and DOCTOR M'BENGA are also featured in the series, but the forum won't let me post links as there is a "%" sign in the link to those two names. If you want to see pictures and background information on these two characters, just click on the link above for a character, then type in D'AMATO's or M'BENGA's name into the search engine. Their info will be brought up.
Click on the link to see a picture and read info about the characters.
David Mack really did his homework, fitting this story into the Classic Trek Universe.
Excellent Read.
CLARK TERRELL (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Clark_Terrell)
COMMODORE MATT DECKER (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Matt_Decker)
FIRST OFFICER MASADA of the USS CONSTELLATION (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Masada)
GARY MITCHELL (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Gary_Mitchell)
DR. MARK PIPER of the USS ENTERPRISE (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Mark_Piper)
LIEUTENTANT D'AMATO and DOCTOR M'BENGA are also featured in the series, but the forum won't let me post links as there is a "%" sign in the link to those two names. If you want to see pictures and background information on these two characters, just click on the link above for a character, then type in D'AMATO's or M'BENGA's name into the search engine. Their info will be brought up.
Supplement Four
April 29th, 2007, 06:39 PM
Besides Klingon, Vulcan, and Romulan, here are some of the non-human races featured in this series:
Ambassador Jetanien is a RIGELLIAN CHELON (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Rigellian), a race with ties to the alien RIGELIANs (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Rigelian) (only one "L" in the name).
THOLIANS (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Tholians) are central to the plot.
TELLARITEs (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Tellarite) can be seen, as well as ORIONs. (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Orion)
Your usual host of other Star Trek aliens can be seen in the background as well.
Ambassador Jetanien is a RIGELLIAN CHELON (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Rigellian), a race with ties to the alien RIGELIANs (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Rigelian) (only one "L" in the name).
THOLIANS (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Tholians) are central to the plot.
TELLARITEs (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Tellarite) can be seen, as well as ORIONs. (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Orion)
Your usual host of other Star Trek aliens can be seen in the background as well.
Supplement Four
April 29th, 2007, 07:02 PM
Some ships used in the series:
The USS Bombay is a MIRANDA class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Miranda_class) Starfleet cruiser.
The USS Sagittarius is a ARCHER class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:V3_reapwhirlwind.jpg) scout vessel.
And, of course, several CONSTITUTION class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Constitution_class) cruisers can be seen in the story, from the USS Constellation, to the USS Enterprise, to the USS Endeavour.
A DAEDALUS class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Daedalus_class) vessel, the USS LOVELL (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Summon_the_Thunder.jpg), makes its debut at Starbase 47 in the second novel.
Here's different views of the DAEDALUS class (http://www.starfleet-museum.org/daedalus.htm) along with deck plans.
And, the central space station featured in the series is STARBASE 47 (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Harbinger_cover.jpg), otherwise known as VANGUARD. (http://www.psiphi.org/images/vanguard-side.jpg)
The USS Bombay is a MIRANDA class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Miranda_class) Starfleet cruiser.
The USS Sagittarius is a ARCHER class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:V3_reapwhirlwind.jpg) scout vessel.
And, of course, several CONSTITUTION class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Constitution_class) cruisers can be seen in the story, from the USS Constellation, to the USS Enterprise, to the USS Endeavour.
A DAEDALUS class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Daedalus_class) vessel, the USS LOVELL (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Summon_the_Thunder.jpg), makes its debut at Starbase 47 in the second novel.
Here's different views of the DAEDALUS class (http://www.starfleet-museum.org/daedalus.htm) along with deck plans.
And, the central space station featured in the series is STARBASE 47 (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Harbinger_cover.jpg), otherwise known as VANGUARD. (http://www.psiphi.org/images/vanguard-side.jpg)
Supplement Four
April 29th, 2007, 07:05 PM
Everything you ever wanted to know about the DAEDALUS class (http://www.daedalusclass.com/) can be found by clicking on its name.
And a very cool looking, post STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE DAEDALUS (http://www.karimnassar.com/design/daedalus.php) can be found here.
And a very cool looking, post STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE DAEDALUS (http://www.karimnassar.com/design/daedalus.php) can be found here.
Supplement Four
April 29th, 2007, 07:16 PM
For those reading this series, I've just discovered that a prequel to the series has just been written.
The book is called: DISTANT EARLY WARNING, by Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore.
Find out more about it HERE. (http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Distant_Early_Warning)
The book is called: DISTANT EARLY WARNING, by Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore.
Find out more about it HERE. (http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Distant_Early_Warning)
Supplement Four
April 29th, 2007, 07:19 PM
The crew of the USS Lovell are also featured in two other novels by Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore.
FOUNDATIONS (http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Foundations) and WHERE TIME STANDS STILL. (http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Where_Time_Stands_Still)
FOUNDATIONS (http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Foundations) and WHERE TIME STANDS STILL. (http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Where_Time_Stands_Still)
GypsyComet
April 29th, 2007, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by BlackBat242:
Vanguard is placed in a "neutral" area bounded by Tholians & Klingons as well as the Federation. Were the Tholians even known at this point?
Vanguard is placed in a "neutral" area bounded by Tholians & Klingons as well as the Federation. Were the Tholians even known at this point?
Supplement Four
April 29th, 2007, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by GypsyComet:
Were the Tholians even known at this point? Sure. The Tholians were featured in a couple of Star Trek: Enterprise episodes, which, chronologically, takes place over 100 years before the events that take place in these novels.
Were the Tholians even known at this point? Sure. The Tholians were featured in a couple of Star Trek: Enterprise episodes, which, chronologically, takes place over 100 years before the events that take place in these novels.
GypsyComet
April 29th, 2007, 11:25 PM
Given how fast and loose Enterprise could play with the previous material, Tholian presence in that series is not surprising.
It's been a while since I saw "The Tholian Web". Did Kirk et al. know at the start that they were entering "Tholian" space?
It's been a while since I saw "The Tholian Web". Did Kirk et al. know at the start that they were entering "Tholian" space?
Supplement Four
April 30th, 2007, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by GypsyComet:
It's been a while since I saw "The Tholian Web". Did Kirk et al. know at the start that they were entering "Tholian" space? Not sure. I'd have to re-watch it to tell ya.
I do remember, though, on the Enterprise episodes (2-parter), Archer & Co. never got a look at the Tholians--only their ships. No visual communication.
Maybe it was the first time with Kirk et al. that the Tholians were seen (although they have been known about for a century).
It's been a while since I saw "The Tholian Web". Did Kirk et al. know at the start that they were entering "Tholian" space? Not sure. I'd have to re-watch it to tell ya.
I do remember, though, on the Enterprise episodes (2-parter), Archer & Co. never got a look at the Tholians--only their ships. No visual communication.
Maybe it was the first time with Kirk et al. that the Tholians were seen (although they have been known about for a century).
Spinward Scout
April 30th, 2007, 10:27 AM
Does anyone know if they have this out on Books on CD? That'd be great to listen to when I'm driving.
Supplement Four
June 4th, 2007, 01:44 AM
FYI, book 3 Reap The Whirlwind is out. I picked it up tonight at my local Barnes & Noble.
BlackBat242
June 4th, 2007, 02:37 PM
I'll see your B&N and raise you a Hastings (6 days ago).
~3/4 done, will post comments when finished with it.
~3/4 done, will post comments when finished with it.
Gaming Glen
June 8th, 2007, 09:45 AM
"Simple?" Decker shook his head, as much in disbelief as in sheer wonderment at the never-ending tricks the universe had up its proverbial sleeve. "That's a lot of DNA for something I'd scrape off my breakfast. Speaking of which--" He turned toward his yeoman, who happened to be walking past. "Lawford, get me some coffee, will you?"
"Lawford transferred to the Yorktown two weeks ago, sir," the yeoman said. "I'm Guthrie."
Decker squinted in disapproval. "And that has precisely what to do with my coffee?"
"Nothing, sir."
The commodore pointed the yeoman toward the food slot. "Milk, no sugar."
"I know, sir."
"Thanks, Lawford."
"Guthrie, sir."
"Whatever." Decker turned back toward the science station while the yeoman plodded away, muttering quietly. Returning his attention to Masada, Decker said, "Why would mold need that much genetic information?"
"Whatever"? What commanding officer gives such 14-year-old mentality disrepect to one of his crew? Bad, bad, bad. That just unsold a book.
"Lawford transferred to the Yorktown two weeks ago, sir," the yeoman said. "I'm Guthrie."
Decker squinted in disapproval. "And that has precisely what to do with my coffee?"
"Nothing, sir."
The commodore pointed the yeoman toward the food slot. "Milk, no sugar."
"I know, sir."
"Thanks, Lawford."
"Guthrie, sir."
"Whatever." Decker turned back toward the science station while the yeoman plodded away, muttering quietly. Returning his attention to Masada, Decker said, "Why would mold need that much genetic information?"
"Whatever"? What commanding officer gives such 14-year-old mentality disrepect to one of his crew? Bad, bad, bad. That just unsold a book.
Supplement Four
June 10th, 2007, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by Gaming Glen:
"Whatever"? What commanding officer gives such 14-year-old mentality disrepect to one of his crew? Bad, bad, bad. That just unsold a book. Your loss. It's a great series. If you've ever seen the Classic Trek episode called The Doomsday Machine, then you would know that's how Decker speaks.
David Mack continues to impress me with his Trek knowledge.
"Whatever"? What commanding officer gives such 14-year-old mentality disrepect to one of his crew? Bad, bad, bad. That just unsold a book. Your loss. It's a great series. If you've ever seen the Classic Trek episode called The Doomsday Machine, then you would know that's how Decker speaks.
David Mack continues to impress me with his Trek knowledge.
Supplement Four
June 16th, 2008, 06:13 PM
Just FYI for those of you following this excellent book series...
You know about the remastering of the classic Trek episodes, right? Well, it was recently announced that a certain starbase that matches Starbase 47's design (Vanguard) will appear in the background of the remastered episode "The Ultimate Computer".
I thought that was kinda neat.
And, for those of you just seeing this thread for the first time. You should check out the series. It's a great one if you like classic Trek.
All three books in the series have gotten great reviews. And, I'm here to tell you that they're great reads.
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Vanguard-David-Mack/dp/1416507744/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213654116&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Vanguard-Summon-Thunder/dp/1416524002/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213654116&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Reap-Whirlwind-Star-Trek-Vanguard/dp/1416534148/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213654116&sr=1-3
Plus...Book #4 of the series has been announced for publication in May '09. One more year.
It's a while, but it seems they're taking their time and writing good books (not just hurrying-out crap, as some of the Trek books are).
The writers seem to care about this series.
And, my guess is that's why the series is a success.
I bet its popularity will grow when the new movie hits theaters as well.
Retro is "in".
You know about the remastering of the classic Trek episodes, right? Well, it was recently announced that a certain starbase that matches Starbase 47's design (Vanguard) will appear in the background of the remastered episode "The Ultimate Computer".
I thought that was kinda neat.
And, for those of you just seeing this thread for the first time. You should check out the series. It's a great one if you like classic Trek.
All three books in the series have gotten great reviews. And, I'm here to tell you that they're great reads.
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Vanguard-David-Mack/dp/1416507744/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213654116&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Vanguard-Summon-Thunder/dp/1416524002/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213654116&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Reap-Whirlwind-Star-Trek-Vanguard/dp/1416534148/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213654116&sr=1-3
Plus...Book #4 of the series has been announced for publication in May '09. One more year.
It's a while, but it seems they're taking their time and writing good books (not just hurrying-out crap, as some of the Trek books are).
The writers seem to care about this series.
And, my guess is that's why the series is a success.
I bet its popularity will grow when the new movie hits theaters as well.
Retro is "in".
Trent
June 20th, 2008, 05:45 AM
Not sure. I'd have to re-watch it to tell ya.
I do remember, though, on the Enterprise episodes (2-parter), Archer & Co. never got a look at the Tholians--only their ships. No visual communication.
Maybe it was the first time with Kirk et al. that the Tholians were seen (although they have been known about for a century).
The enterprisae ep took place in a paralell universe, not the same one kirk and col. encounter the tholians in the main trek universe.
Also, the captured a tholian and held it in the sickbay chamber, they got a good look at it.
I do remember, though, on the Enterprise episodes (2-parter), Archer & Co. never got a look at the Tholians--only their ships. No visual communication.
Maybe it was the first time with Kirk et al. that the Tholians were seen (although they have been known about for a century).
The enterprisae ep took place in a paralell universe, not the same one kirk and col. encounter the tholians in the main trek universe.
Also, the captured a tholian and held it in the sickbay chamber, they got a good look at it.
Supplement Four
June 20th, 2008, 10:46 AM
The enterprisae ep took place in a paralell universe, not the same one kirk and col. encounter the tholians in the main trek universe.
Also, the captured a tholian and held it in the sickbay chamber, they got a good look at it.
Weren't their two Enterprise episodes featuring the Tholians? There's the two-part alternate universe one (isn't that the one where the Tholian was held in the sickbay...not the normal universe crew), and there was an earlier episode, too, yes? Where only commuinication happened with the Tholians--no visual.
Memory is hazy (as Pink Floyd would say).
Also, the captured a tholian and held it in the sickbay chamber, they got a good look at it.
Weren't their two Enterprise episodes featuring the Tholians? There's the two-part alternate universe one (isn't that the one where the Tholian was held in the sickbay...not the normal universe crew), and there was an earlier episode, too, yes? Where only commuinication happened with the Tholians--no visual.
Memory is hazy (as Pink Floyd would say).
aramis
June 20th, 2008, 03:20 PM
According to Memory Alpha (the star trek wiki)
Appearances
* TOS: "The Tholian Web"
* ENT:
o "Future Tense"
o "In a Mirror, Darkly"
o "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II"
(http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Tholian)
Appearances
* TOS: "The Tholian Web"
* ENT:
o "Future Tense"
o "In a Mirror, Darkly"
o "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II"
(http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Tholian)
Tysis
June 20th, 2008, 04:38 PM
You know I have not read a Trek book in a long time. I do prefer the classic series, and honestly the newer series were not to my liking at all.
I will check this out when I finish up my reading. Currently reading a Star Wars series. Those can be really, really bad too but this one is pretty decent.
Got a couple of fantasy books next then I will check out Star Trek.
I will check this out when I finish up my reading. Currently reading a Star Wars series. Those can be really, really bad too but this one is pretty decent.
Got a couple of fantasy books next then I will check out Star Trek.
Supplement Four
August 24th, 2008, 12:35 AM
OK, folks, this fantastic Trek series is getting TWO books in 2009. The first is due out in April, called Open Secrets.
The second is not yet titled, due out in December '09.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Vanguard
So far, the series contains:
Star Trek Vanguard
Harbinger, by David Mack
Summon The Thunder, by Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore
Reap the Whirlwind, by David Mack
Plus, there is an e-Book that serves as a prequel to Harbinger:
Distant Early Warning, by Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore
I'm guess the fourth and fifth installments of this old school Trek series coming out in the same year as the relaunch of the Trek movie series (set during the beginning of the old series) is no accident.:)
The second is not yet titled, due out in December '09.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Vanguard
So far, the series contains:
Star Trek Vanguard
Harbinger, by David Mack
Summon The Thunder, by Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore
Reap the Whirlwind, by David Mack
Plus, there is an e-Book that serves as a prequel to Harbinger:
Distant Early Warning, by Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore
I'm guess the fourth and fifth installments of this old school Trek series coming out in the same year as the relaunch of the Trek movie series (set during the beginning of the old series) is no accident.:)
Trent
August 24th, 2008, 01:48 AM
If you like classic trek I recommend two of the best novels ever written for it: World without end and planet of judgement, both by Joe Haldeman.
Supplement Four
August 24th, 2008, 02:14 AM
If you like classic trek I recommend two of the best novels ever written for it: World without end and planet of judgement, both by Joe Haldeman.
I'll top that and suggest The Final Reflection by gaming's own John M. Ford.
Ford's book isn't only a great Trek book, I put it on my list of best-books-I've-ever-read.
This book truly is fantastic.
Here's a link: http://www.amazon.com/Final-Reflection-Star-Trek-No/dp/0671743546/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219558230&sr=1-5
(Looks like at least 50 other people agree with me. Don't let the cover fool you. The book looks like a schlock Trek novel. It's not. It's excellent science fiction, story based, set before the old series.)
This book is so good, I actually heard the deck plates creak as the old D4 Klingon cruisers (before the D7s) banked in maneuvers.
Trust me on this one. Great book.
I'll top that and suggest The Final Reflection by gaming's own John M. Ford.
Ford's book isn't only a great Trek book, I put it on my list of best-books-I've-ever-read.
This book truly is fantastic.
Here's a link: http://www.amazon.com/Final-Reflection-Star-Trek-No/dp/0671743546/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219558230&sr=1-5
(Looks like at least 50 other people agree with me. Don't let the cover fool you. The book looks like a schlock Trek novel. It's not. It's excellent science fiction, story based, set before the old series.)
This book is so good, I actually heard the deck plates creak as the old D4 Klingon cruisers (before the D7s) banked in maneuvers.
Trust me on this one. Great book.
Supplement Four
December 16th, 2008, 12:06 AM
For you Trek fans, check out these awesome views of the USS Sagittarius, the scout ship used in the Vangaurd series.
Wiki (with Action View): http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Sagittarius_(NCC-1894)
Port View: http://www.voyagesofimagination.com/images/1SagittariusLateral.pdf
Dorsal View: http://www.voyagesofimagination.com/images/2SagittariusDorsal.pdf
Ventral View: http://www.voyagesofimagination.com/images/3SagittariusVentral.pdf
Fore/Aft View: http://www.voyagesofimagination.com/images/4SagittariusFore_Aft.pdf
Note that Commander Clark Terrell is First Officer aboard Sagittarius. You might remember him as Captain of the USS Reliant (Checkov served as is First Officer) in The Wrath of Khan: http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Clark_Terrell; http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Reliant_%28NCC-1864%29
Wiki (with Action View): http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Sagittarius_(NCC-1894)
Port View: http://www.voyagesofimagination.com/images/1SagittariusLateral.pdf
Dorsal View: http://www.voyagesofimagination.com/images/2SagittariusDorsal.pdf
Ventral View: http://www.voyagesofimagination.com/images/3SagittariusVentral.pdf
Fore/Aft View: http://www.voyagesofimagination.com/images/4SagittariusFore_Aft.pdf
Note that Commander Clark Terrell is First Officer aboard Sagittarius. You might remember him as Captain of the USS Reliant (Checkov served as is First Officer) in The Wrath of Khan: http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Clark_Terrell; http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Reliant_%28NCC-1864%29
Supplement Four
December 28th, 2008, 07:10 PM
The fourth book in the series has been named: Open Secrets, by Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore, due out in August 2009.
Book five, by series starter David Mack, is due out in a year, December 2009, but is yet un-named.
Book five, by series starter David Mack, is due out in a year, December 2009, but is yet un-named.
Supplement Four
December 28th, 2008, 08:23 PM
Vanguard is a Watchtower class stations, fast-tracked, built almost two years ahead of schedule.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/thumb/d/d8/Starbase47.jpg/220px-Starbase47.jpg
http://www.psiphi.org/images/vanguard-side.jpg
Assigned to Vanguard is the USS Bombay, a Miranda class cruiser.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/90/237425915_4cb3b72c7d_o.jpg
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/frigate_surya_upgrade.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/thumb/d/d8/Starbase47.jpg/220px-Starbase47.jpg
http://www.psiphi.org/images/vanguard-side.jpg
Assigned to Vanguard is the USS Bombay, a Miranda class cruiser.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/90/237425915_4cb3b72c7d_o.jpg
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/frigate_surya_upgrade.jpg
BlackBat242
December 28th, 2008, 09:15 PM
Ummm... the Miranda class are Frigates, not Cruisers.
Supplement Four
December 28th, 2008, 10:40 PM
Ummm... the Miranda class are Frigates, not Cruisers.
I've never heard that. I've always read that they were cruisers.
And, Memory Alpha agrees with me: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Miranda_class
I've never heard that. I've always read that they were cruisers.
And, Memory Alpha agrees with me: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Miranda_class
aramis
December 29th, 2008, 03:56 AM
The Miranda class is a feature for feature rip-off of the SFB "New Light Cruiser" (NCL), a design which predates the movie by years (1980 supplement, vs 1982 movie).
It looks very much like the NCL, and has almost identical armament, and many SFB-matching features.
Nexus Magazine had an article, "Star Trek III: The Search for SFB" showing the parallels and how to duplicate ST III with SFB rules.
And the illustration shown is actually an Anton class cruiser, per the FASA-Trek; the Miranda is the refit Anton.
It looks very much like the NCL, and has almost identical armament, and many SFB-matching features.
Nexus Magazine had an article, "Star Trek III: The Search for SFB" showing the parallels and how to duplicate ST III with SFB rules.
And the illustration shown is actually an Anton class cruiser, per the FASA-Trek; the Miranda is the refit Anton.
tbeard1999
December 29th, 2008, 03:17 PM
The Miranda class is a feature for feature rip-off of the SFB "New Light Cruiser" (NCL), a design which predates the movie by years (1980 supplement, vs 1982 movie).
It looks very much like the NCL, and has almost identical armament, and many SFB-matching features.
I never agreed with this (despite being a SFB player when Expansion 2 was released--was it really 1980? Wow; we're getting old.)
As I recall, the director chose the two nacelle underneath layout to make sure Reliant could be visually distinguished from Enterprise. I'm not aware of any evidence that the production team of Star Trek 2 played SFB.
And I note that Reliant used two phasers (mounted on each end of the "roll bar"; a feature that does not appear on the SFB new light cruiser). The size of the beams implies that they are more powerful than the phasers on Enterprise. Reliant also has aft firing torpedoes, which do not appear on the NCL.
Enterprise, by contrast used two forward phasers and the port twin phasers. And if the miniature accurately places phasers, Enterprise has 12 phasers -- 3 pairs on top of the saucer and 3 pairs on the bottom of the saucer. (Reliant has the same details, although she uses the rollbar mounted phasers exclusively in the movie).
Implied armament:
Enterprise -- 12 phasers, 2 photon tubes
Reliant -- 12 phasers, 2 "roll bar" mounted phasers, 1 forward torpedo launcher, 1 aft torpedo launcher.
Armament Used in Movie:
Enterprise: 2 forward phasers; 2 port phasers; 2 forward photon tubes
Reliant: 2 "roll bar" mounted phasers; 1 forward photon; 1 aft photon tube
By contrast, the NCL has the same phaser armament as the Heavy Cruiser. No "roll bar"; no aft firing torpedoes. Reliant's torpedo armament is inconclusive, but IIRC, Reliant has a single forward torpedo tube (vs Enterprise's double launcher) and an aft torpedo tube.
At the end of the day, the SFB NCL is a logical alternative to the Franz Joseph destroyer design (which had the same armament as a Heavy Cruiser [with an additional point defense system], but only half the warp power).
The game design of SFB made the destroyer unable to effectively use its armament. Ironic, since Task Force Games/ADB licensed Franz Joseph's work (giving it a "back door" Star Trek license). In SFB, most power is generated by the warp engines (the Heavy Cruiser has 30 points of warp power vs 4 points of impulse power). To fire all its weapons, the Heavy Cruiser requires 14 points of power, leaving plenty of energy (20 points) for shields and maneuvering (18 movement factors if no shield reinforcement is used).
This design decision made the destroyer severely underpowered -- it had 19 points of power total. Using 14 points to power weapons and 2 to power shields meant that it could barely maneuver.
The NCL design corrected this by essentially giving the Destroyer 60% more warp power (24 points). Its lower movement cost vis-a-vis the Heavy Cruiser means that it can power its shields and fire all weapons, while as fast as the the Heavy Cruiser (speed 18).
But as logical as the NCL design is, I don't think that there's any evidence that it inspired the Reliant design.
Caveat -- I haven't played SFB in 22 years; but when I played it, I played it a lot. The details above seem pretty firm in my memory, though.
It looks very much like the NCL, and has almost identical armament, and many SFB-matching features.
I never agreed with this (despite being a SFB player when Expansion 2 was released--was it really 1980? Wow; we're getting old.)
As I recall, the director chose the two nacelle underneath layout to make sure Reliant could be visually distinguished from Enterprise. I'm not aware of any evidence that the production team of Star Trek 2 played SFB.
And I note that Reliant used two phasers (mounted on each end of the "roll bar"; a feature that does not appear on the SFB new light cruiser). The size of the beams implies that they are more powerful than the phasers on Enterprise. Reliant also has aft firing torpedoes, which do not appear on the NCL.
Enterprise, by contrast used two forward phasers and the port twin phasers. And if the miniature accurately places phasers, Enterprise has 12 phasers -- 3 pairs on top of the saucer and 3 pairs on the bottom of the saucer. (Reliant has the same details, although she uses the rollbar mounted phasers exclusively in the movie).
Implied armament:
Enterprise -- 12 phasers, 2 photon tubes
Reliant -- 12 phasers, 2 "roll bar" mounted phasers, 1 forward torpedo launcher, 1 aft torpedo launcher.
Armament Used in Movie:
Enterprise: 2 forward phasers; 2 port phasers; 2 forward photon tubes
Reliant: 2 "roll bar" mounted phasers; 1 forward photon; 1 aft photon tube
By contrast, the NCL has the same phaser armament as the Heavy Cruiser. No "roll bar"; no aft firing torpedoes. Reliant's torpedo armament is inconclusive, but IIRC, Reliant has a single forward torpedo tube (vs Enterprise's double launcher) and an aft torpedo tube.
At the end of the day, the SFB NCL is a logical alternative to the Franz Joseph destroyer design (which had the same armament as a Heavy Cruiser [with an additional point defense system], but only half the warp power).
The game design of SFB made the destroyer unable to effectively use its armament. Ironic, since Task Force Games/ADB licensed Franz Joseph's work (giving it a "back door" Star Trek license). In SFB, most power is generated by the warp engines (the Heavy Cruiser has 30 points of warp power vs 4 points of impulse power). To fire all its weapons, the Heavy Cruiser requires 14 points of power, leaving plenty of energy (20 points) for shields and maneuvering (18 movement factors if no shield reinforcement is used).
This design decision made the destroyer severely underpowered -- it had 19 points of power total. Using 14 points to power weapons and 2 to power shields meant that it could barely maneuver.
The NCL design corrected this by essentially giving the Destroyer 60% more warp power (24 points). Its lower movement cost vis-a-vis the Heavy Cruiser means that it can power its shields and fire all weapons, while as fast as the the Heavy Cruiser (speed 18).
But as logical as the NCL design is, I don't think that there's any evidence that it inspired the Reliant design.
Caveat -- I haven't played SFB in 22 years; but when I played it, I played it a lot. The details above seem pretty firm in my memory, though.
aramis
December 29th, 2008, 04:02 PM
Closer to the NCL+, really. the aft fire is the real innovation, unless those are drones... but then the Refit enterprise is a BC... ;)
The NCL has a drone rack aft centerline.
The NCL+ adds phasers at the corners (admittedly NOT big ones). But all the combat we see is at range 0... and with no sheilds.
I do think the similarities are striking, and that the NCL was the inspiration for the Reliant/Miranda.... especially given the GSC/Grissom and G3 or G4 vs BoP. I would agree the stock NCL isn't the Miranda with rollbar. Wait.. perhaps it is the conjectural NCL-Mauler... :P
The NCL has a drone rack aft centerline.
The NCL+ adds phasers at the corners (admittedly NOT big ones). But all the combat we see is at range 0... and with no sheilds.
I do think the similarities are striking, and that the NCL was the inspiration for the Reliant/Miranda.... especially given the GSC/Grissom and G3 or G4 vs BoP. I would agree the stock NCL isn't the Miranda with rollbar. Wait.. perhaps it is the conjectural NCL-Mauler... :P
saundby
December 30th, 2008, 01:04 AM
At the end of the day, the SFB NCL is a logical alternative to the Franz Joseph destroyer design (which had the same armament as a Heavy Cruiser [with an additional point defense system], but only half the warp power).
The game design of SFB made the destroyer unable to effectively use its armament. Ironic, since Task Force Games/ADB licensed Franz Joseph's work (giving it a "back door" Star Trek license). In SFB, most power is generated by the warp engines (the Heavy Cruiser has 30 points of warp power vs 4 points of impulse power). To fire all its weapons, the Heavy Cruiser requires 14 points of power, leaving plenty of energy (20 points) for shields and maneuvering (18 movement factors if no shield reinforcement is used).
I recall my friends and I all being disgusted with the handling of the destroyers in SFB. We house-ruled that they got an additional 4 or 5 points of power from the saucer, that they sacrificed crew space for additional power production, as well as for the sensor systems that were mounted on the secondary hull in the Constellations.
Later we unlinked power from warp pods even more when we introduced Federation battle cruisers from one of the Trek fanzines (Constellations with two extra warp pods and extra shield projectors mounted on the fronts of the nacelles.) Using the power calcs from SFB made them so overpowered as to be just no fun. They ate dreadnoughts like popcorn.
The game design of SFB made the destroyer unable to effectively use its armament. Ironic, since Task Force Games/ADB licensed Franz Joseph's work (giving it a "back door" Star Trek license). In SFB, most power is generated by the warp engines (the Heavy Cruiser has 30 points of warp power vs 4 points of impulse power). To fire all its weapons, the Heavy Cruiser requires 14 points of power, leaving plenty of energy (20 points) for shields and maneuvering (18 movement factors if no shield reinforcement is used).
I recall my friends and I all being disgusted with the handling of the destroyers in SFB. We house-ruled that they got an additional 4 or 5 points of power from the saucer, that they sacrificed crew space for additional power production, as well as for the sensor systems that were mounted on the secondary hull in the Constellations.
Later we unlinked power from warp pods even more when we introduced Federation battle cruisers from one of the Trek fanzines (Constellations with two extra warp pods and extra shield projectors mounted on the fronts of the nacelles.) Using the power calcs from SFB made them so overpowered as to be just no fun. They ate dreadnoughts like popcorn.
tbeard1999
December 30th, 2008, 06:30 AM
I recall my friends and I all being disgusted with the handling of the destroyers in SFB. We house-ruled that they got an additional 4 or 5 points of power from the saucer, that they sacrificed crew space for additional power production, as well as for the sensor systems that were mounted on the secondary hull in the Constellations.
Later we unlinked power from warp pods even more when we introduced Federation battle cruisers from one of the Trek fanzines (Constellations with two extra warp pods and extra shield projectors mounted on the fronts of the nacelles.) Using the power calcs from SFB made them so overpowered as to be just no fun. They ate dreadnoughts like popcorn.
I think that the mistake was made in the orginal material -- Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual.
Star Trek explicitely made it clear that a heavy cruiser could barely operate shields on impulse power ("Elaan of Troyius"); warp power was necessary to fight and maneuver. Thus, the warp engines had to produce far more power than the impulse drives.
It was therefore ridiculous for the Destroyer to carry the same armament as a heavy cruiser, with only half the power. Given what was implied by "Elaan of Troyius", no sane Star Fleet would have designed such a ship. Franz Joseph should have toned the armament down (say 3 phasers instead of 6 and 2 photons instead of 4). Or established that the Destroyer carried smaller phasers and torpedoes.
The designers of SFB faithfully replicated the power tech implied in "Elaan of Troyius", which produced a worthless destroyer. That this was not addressed in playtesting is surprising.
Later we unlinked power from warp pods even more when we introduced Federation battle cruisers from one of the Trek fanzines (Constellations with two extra warp pods and extra shield projectors mounted on the fronts of the nacelles.) Using the power calcs from SFB made them so overpowered as to be just no fun. They ate dreadnoughts like popcorn.
I think that the mistake was made in the orginal material -- Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual.
Star Trek explicitely made it clear that a heavy cruiser could barely operate shields on impulse power ("Elaan of Troyius"); warp power was necessary to fight and maneuver. Thus, the warp engines had to produce far more power than the impulse drives.
It was therefore ridiculous for the Destroyer to carry the same armament as a heavy cruiser, with only half the power. Given what was implied by "Elaan of Troyius", no sane Star Fleet would have designed such a ship. Franz Joseph should have toned the armament down (say 3 phasers instead of 6 and 2 photons instead of 4). Or established that the Destroyer carried smaller phasers and torpedoes.
The designers of SFB faithfully replicated the power tech implied in "Elaan of Troyius", which produced a worthless destroyer. That this was not addressed in playtesting is surprising.
aramis
December 30th, 2008, 07:20 AM
I never found the destroyer worthless; slow, yes. Against any other SFB destroyer, careful use of reserve power allowed it to do some serious damage. A narrow salvo of held photons, for example... deep penetrating hits, rather than mizia.
The deficiencies as portrayed are mollified somewhat by the + and a refits; A DD+a is a wonderful bit of nastiness (4 extra warp reactor).
And no design bureau historically can be rightly accused of sanity... so I doubt the future would change that.
The deficiencies as portrayed are mollified somewhat by the + and a refits; A DD+a is a wonderful bit of nastiness (4 extra warp reactor).
And no design bureau historically can be rightly accused of sanity... so I doubt the future would change that.
tbeard1999
December 30th, 2008, 07:50 AM
I never found the destroyer worthless; slow, yes. Against any other SFB destroyer, careful use of reserve power allowed it to do some serious damage. A narrow salvo of held photons, for example... deep penetrating hits, rather than mizia.
The deficiencies as portrayed are mollified somewhat by the + and a refits; A DD+a is a wonderful bit of nastiness (4 extra warp reactor).
And no design bureau historically can be rightly accused of sanity... so I doubt the future would change that.
Well, no ship would truly be worthless in SFB, so I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole.
But I found the Destroyer worthless in the sense that it cost too much for its actual capabilities. In effect, its point values included systems that couldn't be used most of the time (unless you wanted to "wallow like a garbage scow against a warp-driven starship").
The math was simple -- 19 total power. Full utilization of weapons and shields required 16 points, leaving 3 points for movement (or minimal shield reinforcement) -- Speed 6 maximum, with no shield reinforcement.
This is a basic flaw that would have been obvious in any computer simulation (or real world wargames), so the "design bureau screwed up" rationale does not convince me. I could see a flawed prototype being built -- but scores of them? No way IMHO.
We're not talking about a hidden flaw (like the vulnerability of British WWI battlecruiser to magazine detonating hits). The DD's flaws would have been obvious in *any* simulation (assuming that Star Fleet engineers knew the energy costs of their weapons and shields). Heck, you could figure that out on the back of an envelope by totalling the energy costs of all major systems.
Even allowing a prototype to be built would have required some additional assumptions. Perhaps the DD had an innovative power amplification system that should have increased warp power in short term situations (ala the Orion pirates' ability to double warp power), and it just didn't work well in real life. Thus, a prototype was built before this was discovered. It's just too much IMHO to assume Star Fleet would have included nearly twice the weaponry that the ship could typically use (with the attendant increased costs, maintenance burden and crewing requirements) in an entire class of scores of ships. If Star Fleet was this incompetent, then there would have been other ship classes with similarly flawed design issues.
Now, it was certainly possible to underutilize the DD weapons. However, the points system still docked you for those underutilized weapons. In addition, the ship is still illogical. Why would Star Fleet fit twice as many weapons as the ship could use on this class (and no other class of its ships)?
Nah, IMHO, it was just a crappy design, highlighted by SFB game design decisions.
The drone variant of the Destroyer was effective -- 4 drone racks instead of 4 photons. Since drones consume no power, the DD could fire its weapons and have plenty of speed -- speed 22 with all weapons and shields powered. This is much more like a naval destroyer IMHO.
And giving the DD 4 extra warp boxes is extremely useful -- that gives it effectively 8 more movement points. At this point, it begins to approach the NCL. This should have been the original SFB design in my opinion.
The deficiencies as portrayed are mollified somewhat by the + and a refits; A DD+a is a wonderful bit of nastiness (4 extra warp reactor).
And no design bureau historically can be rightly accused of sanity... so I doubt the future would change that.
Well, no ship would truly be worthless in SFB, so I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole.
But I found the Destroyer worthless in the sense that it cost too much for its actual capabilities. In effect, its point values included systems that couldn't be used most of the time (unless you wanted to "wallow like a garbage scow against a warp-driven starship").
The math was simple -- 19 total power. Full utilization of weapons and shields required 16 points, leaving 3 points for movement (or minimal shield reinforcement) -- Speed 6 maximum, with no shield reinforcement.
This is a basic flaw that would have been obvious in any computer simulation (or real world wargames), so the "design bureau screwed up" rationale does not convince me. I could see a flawed prototype being built -- but scores of them? No way IMHO.
We're not talking about a hidden flaw (like the vulnerability of British WWI battlecruiser to magazine detonating hits). The DD's flaws would have been obvious in *any* simulation (assuming that Star Fleet engineers knew the energy costs of their weapons and shields). Heck, you could figure that out on the back of an envelope by totalling the energy costs of all major systems.
Even allowing a prototype to be built would have required some additional assumptions. Perhaps the DD had an innovative power amplification system that should have increased warp power in short term situations (ala the Orion pirates' ability to double warp power), and it just didn't work well in real life. Thus, a prototype was built before this was discovered. It's just too much IMHO to assume Star Fleet would have included nearly twice the weaponry that the ship could typically use (with the attendant increased costs, maintenance burden and crewing requirements) in an entire class of scores of ships. If Star Fleet was this incompetent, then there would have been other ship classes with similarly flawed design issues.
Now, it was certainly possible to underutilize the DD weapons. However, the points system still docked you for those underutilized weapons. In addition, the ship is still illogical. Why would Star Fleet fit twice as many weapons as the ship could use on this class (and no other class of its ships)?
Nah, IMHO, it was just a crappy design, highlighted by SFB game design decisions.
The drone variant of the Destroyer was effective -- 4 drone racks instead of 4 photons. Since drones consume no power, the DD could fire its weapons and have plenty of speed -- speed 22 with all weapons and shields powered. This is much more like a naval destroyer IMHO.
And giving the DD 4 extra warp boxes is extremely useful -- that gives it effectively 8 more movement points. At this point, it begins to approach the NCL. This should have been the original SFB design in my opinion.
aramis
December 30th, 2008, 09:20 AM
The DD was useful using either set of armament, as was done by the Enterprise often enough in the show: Phasers or photons, seldom both. Speed 15.
Or, holding 4 overloads at start: speed 15. If it hits you with a narrow salvo of everything, you die. 64 points of photons + 6x Ph-I will crunch any DD in the game (doint 30-50 internals). It's a one-shot wonder that way, but it is QUITE potent.
The Plus refit gave it sufficient power to arm both photons and 4 phasers, adding 4 APR (and 2x p-III and a drone rack).
The DDG+ was just nasty... but, more importantly, it tied up enemy phasers.
I prefer the mixed DD's: 2 photon, 2-3 drone (3 on +).
A Legendary Engineer makes the Fed DD a powerhouse, BTW.
The design specs for SFB mention it was a peacetime design; the full armament was for compatibiity and cross-training, not so much for actual use. Given the threats it faces in the SFB setting, to wit, the F5 destroyer and the Kzinti DD, the SFB destroyer is not too bad off. General War refits make all of them serious warships, but the Y120-ish Kzinti with speed 8 drones are far less a threat than would be implied from the SSD. For its time, it's passable. It's a pouncer, not a chaser.
Or, holding 4 overloads at start: speed 15. If it hits you with a narrow salvo of everything, you die. 64 points of photons + 6x Ph-I will crunch any DD in the game (doint 30-50 internals). It's a one-shot wonder that way, but it is QUITE potent.
The Plus refit gave it sufficient power to arm both photons and 4 phasers, adding 4 APR (and 2x p-III and a drone rack).
The DDG+ was just nasty... but, more importantly, it tied up enemy phasers.
I prefer the mixed DD's: 2 photon, 2-3 drone (3 on +).
A Legendary Engineer makes the Fed DD a powerhouse, BTW.
The design specs for SFB mention it was a peacetime design; the full armament was for compatibiity and cross-training, not so much for actual use. Given the threats it faces in the SFB setting, to wit, the F5 destroyer and the Kzinti DD, the SFB destroyer is not too bad off. General War refits make all of them serious warships, but the Y120-ish Kzinti with speed 8 drones are far less a threat than would be implied from the SSD. For its time, it's passable. It's a pouncer, not a chaser.
spinwardpirate
January 2nd, 2009, 08:42 AM
Or, holding 4 overloads at start: speed 15. If it hits you with a narrow salvo of everything, you die. 64 points of photons + 6x Ph-I will crunch any DD in the game (doint 30-50 internals). It's a one-shot wonder that way, but it is QUITE potent.
And my luck would always see three of those torps miss! Damn you accursed dice!
And my luck would always see three of those torps miss! Damn you accursed dice!
Supplement Four
January 2nd, 2009, 03:32 PM
The story of Vanguard takes place in the Taurus Reach, an unexplored region of the galaxy that is sandwiched in between the Klingon Empire and the Tholian Assembly.
The year is 2265. The Enterprise has just limped back from its encounter at the edge of the galaxy shown in the episode Where No Man Has Gone Before. The episode, The Corbomite Maneuver, has not yet taken place.
Starfleet uniforms are undergoing a change, from this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d2/JamesTKirk.jpg/250px-JamesTKirk.jpg
To this:
http://sci-fi.lovetoknow.com/wiki/images/Sci-Fi/1/1e/Captainkirk.jpg
David Mack, the author of the first book in the series, has done his research. I love the fact that he mentions the uniform change, in passing, in the story.
The Enterprise has not yet seen its warp nacell upgrade.
Before upgrade:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/42599323_b46d1fdc6e.jpg?v=0
After upgrade:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/43134689_599e242e1a.jpg?v=0
The year is 2265. The Enterprise has just limped back from its encounter at the edge of the galaxy shown in the episode Where No Man Has Gone Before. The episode, The Corbomite Maneuver, has not yet taken place.
Starfleet uniforms are undergoing a change, from this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d2/JamesTKirk.jpg/250px-JamesTKirk.jpg
To this:
http://sci-fi.lovetoknow.com/wiki/images/Sci-Fi/1/1e/Captainkirk.jpg
David Mack, the author of the first book in the series, has done his research. I love the fact that he mentions the uniform change, in passing, in the story.
The Enterprise has not yet seen its warp nacell upgrade.
Before upgrade:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/42599323_b46d1fdc6e.jpg?v=0
After upgrade:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/43134689_599e242e1a.jpg?v=0
skyth
January 2nd, 2009, 03:43 PM
The Fed DD is useful in one role that isn't useful in most SFB games...Retrograde movement, firing proximity torps...
Unfortunately, most games were fought on fixed maps, making this not all that useful.
Unfortunately, most games were fought on fixed maps, making this not all that useful.
Supplement Four
January 2nd, 2009, 03:52 PM
One thing I like about the series is that characters we've seen before--characters we've seen little of--make an appearance.
Commodore Matt Decker, commanding the USS Constitution, before his death in the episode titled The Doomsday Machine.
http://images.dawgsports.com/images/admin/Commodore_Matt_Decker.jpg
Decker's son, Wil, also in Starfleet, will one day command the Enterprise--hand-picked by Kirk when he joins the admiralty.
(Note: The Decker character, the Commodore's son, was created by Gene Rodenberry for the second classic Trek series that never-was, Phase II. When Rodenberry created The Next Generation, the Willard Decker character became William Riker, since Wil Decker met a fate similar to his father's when he joined with V'Ger in The Motion Picture.)
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/b/bb/Will_Decker.jpg/292px-Will_Decker.jpg
Doctor Mark Piper preceeds McCoy as Chief Medical Officer aboard the Enterprise.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/a/af/Mark_Piper.jpg/200px-Mark_Piper.jpg
And, Dr. Jabilo M'Benga joins the crew of the Enterprise during their first stop at Vanguard.
http://www.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2003/101/7349482_1050185679.jpg
Commodore Matt Decker, commanding the USS Constitution, before his death in the episode titled The Doomsday Machine.
http://images.dawgsports.com/images/admin/Commodore_Matt_Decker.jpg
Decker's son, Wil, also in Starfleet, will one day command the Enterprise--hand-picked by Kirk when he joins the admiralty.
(Note: The Decker character, the Commodore's son, was created by Gene Rodenberry for the second classic Trek series that never-was, Phase II. When Rodenberry created The Next Generation, the Willard Decker character became William Riker, since Wil Decker met a fate similar to his father's when he joined with V'Ger in The Motion Picture.)
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/b/bb/Will_Decker.jpg/292px-Will_Decker.jpg
Doctor Mark Piper preceeds McCoy as Chief Medical Officer aboard the Enterprise.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/a/af/Mark_Piper.jpg/200px-Mark_Piper.jpg
And, Dr. Jabilo M'Benga joins the crew of the Enterprise during their first stop at Vanguard.
http://www.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2003/101/7349482_1050185679.jpg
Supplement Four
January 2nd, 2009, 04:19 PM
Oriana D'Amato is the wife of Enterprise geologist Robert D'Amato. She's the Chief Helmsman on the USS Bombay, a Miranda class cruiser assigned to Vanguard.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/3/3b/DAmato.jpg/180px-DAmato.jpg
She's one of my favorite characters in the first book.
The Federation Ambassador on Vanguard, Jetanien, is a Regellian Chelon--a race descended from turtles (At least it's not another human with a funky forehead!).
http://www.geocities.com/therinofandor/ufp/RigellianC.jpg
And, of course, we learn more about the Tholians in this series.
http://www.jimmyakin.org/images/tholian2.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/3/3b/DAmato.jpg/180px-DAmato.jpg
She's one of my favorite characters in the first book.
The Federation Ambassador on Vanguard, Jetanien, is a Regellian Chelon--a race descended from turtles (At least it's not another human with a funky forehead!).
http://www.geocities.com/therinofandor/ufp/RigellianC.jpg
And, of course, we learn more about the Tholians in this series.
http://www.jimmyakin.org/images/tholian2.jpg
Supplement Four
January 2nd, 2009, 04:36 PM
Assigned to Vanguard are three ships of the line.
A Constitution class flagship, the USS Endeavour, is assigned to make first contact with races in the Taurus Reach and ferry Federation Ambassador Jetanien on necessary missions.
The Miranda class USS Bombay is the workhorse of the station, a cruiser large enough to deal with day-to-day starbase business.
And, there is an Archer class scout, the USS Sagittarius, assigned for deep exploration of the Reach.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/thumb/7/7a/Reap_the_Whirlwind.jpg/250px-Reap_the_Whirlwind.jpg
Commander Clark Terrell is executive officer aboard the Sagittarius. In the future, when he is promoted to Captain, he will take command of the USS Reliant.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/0/05/ClarkTerrell2285.jpg/292px-ClarkTerrell2285.jpg
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~geneh/startrek/pictures/reliant3.jpg
If you remember, from The Wrath of Khan, Terrell runs a pretty informal ship. Well, Mack, in writing about the crew of the Sagittarius, takes his que from that. We see where Terrell is influenced by informality during his time as exec officer of the Sagittarius.
Mack doesn't beat you over the head with it. It's there. You either notice it, or you don't.
That's fantastic writing. That's paying attention to detail of a universe.
You can tell that Mack loves this stuff (and it not just doing it for a paycheck), because he lovingly does his research and knows how to write a good book.
A Constitution class flagship, the USS Endeavour, is assigned to make first contact with races in the Taurus Reach and ferry Federation Ambassador Jetanien on necessary missions.
The Miranda class USS Bombay is the workhorse of the station, a cruiser large enough to deal with day-to-day starbase business.
And, there is an Archer class scout, the USS Sagittarius, assigned for deep exploration of the Reach.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/thumb/7/7a/Reap_the_Whirlwind.jpg/250px-Reap_the_Whirlwind.jpg
Commander Clark Terrell is executive officer aboard the Sagittarius. In the future, when he is promoted to Captain, he will take command of the USS Reliant.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/0/05/ClarkTerrell2285.jpg/292px-ClarkTerrell2285.jpg
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~geneh/startrek/pictures/reliant3.jpg
If you remember, from The Wrath of Khan, Terrell runs a pretty informal ship. Well, Mack, in writing about the crew of the Sagittarius, takes his que from that. We see where Terrell is influenced by informality during his time as exec officer of the Sagittarius.
Mack doesn't beat you over the head with it. It's there. You either notice it, or you don't.
That's fantastic writing. That's paying attention to detail of a universe.
You can tell that Mack loves this stuff (and it not just doing it for a paycheck), because he lovingly does his research and knows how to write a good book.
Supplement Four
January 2nd, 2009, 04:53 PM
On December 31, 2008, the title of Book 5 was announced!
Star Trek Vanguard
Prequel: Distant Early Warning, by Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore
Book 1: Harbinger, by David Mack
Book 2: Summon The Thunder, by Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore
Book 3: Reap the Whirlwind, by David Mack
Book 4: Open Secrets, by Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore (due April 2009)
Book 5: Precipice, by David Mack (due December 2009)
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/8/88/Distant_Early_Warning_eBook_cover.jpg
Star Trek Vanguard
Prequel: Distant Early Warning, by Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore
Book 1: Harbinger, by David Mack
Book 2: Summon The Thunder, by Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore
Book 3: Reap the Whirlwind, by David Mack
Book 4: Open Secrets, by Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore (due April 2009)
Book 5: Precipice, by David Mack (due December 2009)
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/8/88/Distant_Early_Warning_eBook_cover.jpg
Supplement Four
January 2nd, 2009, 04:55 PM
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/d/df/Harbinger_cover.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/6/66/Summon_the_Thunder.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/f/fc/Star_Trek_Vanguard_-_Reap_the_Whirlwind_-_Cover.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/8/8a/Open_Secrets_cover.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/6/66/Summon_the_Thunder.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/f/fc/Star_Trek_Vanguard_-_Reap_the_Whirlwind_-_Cover.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/8/8a/Open_Secrets_cover.jpg
Supplement Four
January 2nd, 2009, 05:37 PM
More neat stuff about the Vanguard series...
Click on this link to find out info about the characters:
http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Vanguard
Note that you can click on the character's names and be taken to a page that speaks, in-depth, about each character. At the bottom of the page, you'll see links to the three vessels assigned to Vanguard--the Endeavour, the Bombay, and the Sagittarius. Click on those ship names to be taken to a page see their crews--and you can click on those names as well to find out more about those characters.
Be careful, though! There are spoilers within those links!
I'd read the books first, then browse. I've been careful not to spoil anything from the books in these posts I've made.
You will find out some neat tid-bits, though, stuff like...
(This is non-spoiler stuff)
Tim Pennington, the reporter on Vanguard, will eventually have the Pennington School of Journalism named after him (which is mentioned in a Deep Space Nine episode).
Cervantes Quinn, the Harry Mudd-esque rogue character on Vanguard, has a ship named the Rocinante. (The Rocinante is pictured on the cover of the Harbinger novel above--it's the ship on the left, docked to the starbase.)
"Rocinante" is the name of Don Quixote's horse.
From the wiki: Rocín in Spanish means work-horse or low-quality horse ("nag"), but also illiterate or rough man. The name is, however, a pun. On the first order, the Spanish ante means "before" or "previously". On the second order, it also translates as 'in front of'. On the third order, the suffix -ante in Spanish is adverbial; rocinante refers to functioning as or being a rocín reflexively. As such, the author establishes a pattern of ambiguous interpretations present in many instances of verbiage in the novel.
Also note that the novel, Don Quixote, was written by Miquel de Cervantes y Saavedra.
And, David Mack named the character "Cervantes Quinn" (almost Cervantes Twin).
I always loved how Trek stories would work in the classics into their tales, and I think Mack has done a brilliant job with this one.
Mary-Anne Rice took command of the USS Endeavour in 2251, becoming the first femal Starfleet captain of a starship vessel with the magnitude of a Constitution class heavy cruiser. She is re-assigned in the early 2260's, about the time the story around Vanguard begins, replaced by Captain Zhao Sheng.
In 2267, Endeavour is one of three Federation starships assigned to assist the USS Enterprise during inaugration ceremonies on Altair IV (TOS episode Amok Time).
In 2270, Endeavour returned from her five year mission and entered drydock for refit to Enterprise-subclass specifications (TOS novel A Flag Full of Stars).
In 2293, the Endeavour was on a deep space exploration mission near Klingon territory. It was among the starships that would have been assembled for the abandoned assault code named Operation Retrieve, which would have rescued Captain James T. Kirk and Dr. Leonard McCoy from Qo'noS. (TOS film: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country).
Following her graduation from Starfleet Academy in 2321, acting Lieutenant j.g. Rachel Garrett was assigned to the Endeavour while on its patrolof the Romulan Neutral Zone. Rachel Garrett eventually rises in rank to command the USS Enterprise-C (TNG episode).
If you like neat little tid-bits like this, as I do, you'll find them by browsing around the links I provided above. There's plenty of neat stuff there.
Again...watch out for spoilers!
Click on this link to find out info about the characters:
http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Vanguard
Note that you can click on the character's names and be taken to a page that speaks, in-depth, about each character. At the bottom of the page, you'll see links to the three vessels assigned to Vanguard--the Endeavour, the Bombay, and the Sagittarius. Click on those ship names to be taken to a page see their crews--and you can click on those names as well to find out more about those characters.
Be careful, though! There are spoilers within those links!
I'd read the books first, then browse. I've been careful not to spoil anything from the books in these posts I've made.
You will find out some neat tid-bits, though, stuff like...
(This is non-spoiler stuff)
Tim Pennington, the reporter on Vanguard, will eventually have the Pennington School of Journalism named after him (which is mentioned in a Deep Space Nine episode).
Cervantes Quinn, the Harry Mudd-esque rogue character on Vanguard, has a ship named the Rocinante. (The Rocinante is pictured on the cover of the Harbinger novel above--it's the ship on the left, docked to the starbase.)
"Rocinante" is the name of Don Quixote's horse.
From the wiki: Rocín in Spanish means work-horse or low-quality horse ("nag"), but also illiterate or rough man. The name is, however, a pun. On the first order, the Spanish ante means "before" or "previously". On the second order, it also translates as 'in front of'. On the third order, the suffix -ante in Spanish is adverbial; rocinante refers to functioning as or being a rocín reflexively. As such, the author establishes a pattern of ambiguous interpretations present in many instances of verbiage in the novel.
Also note that the novel, Don Quixote, was written by Miquel de Cervantes y Saavedra.
And, David Mack named the character "Cervantes Quinn" (almost Cervantes Twin).
I always loved how Trek stories would work in the classics into their tales, and I think Mack has done a brilliant job with this one.
Mary-Anne Rice took command of the USS Endeavour in 2251, becoming the first femal Starfleet captain of a starship vessel with the magnitude of a Constitution class heavy cruiser. She is re-assigned in the early 2260's, about the time the story around Vanguard begins, replaced by Captain Zhao Sheng.
In 2267, Endeavour is one of three Federation starships assigned to assist the USS Enterprise during inaugration ceremonies on Altair IV (TOS episode Amok Time).
In 2270, Endeavour returned from her five year mission and entered drydock for refit to Enterprise-subclass specifications (TOS novel A Flag Full of Stars).
In 2293, the Endeavour was on a deep space exploration mission near Klingon territory. It was among the starships that would have been assembled for the abandoned assault code named Operation Retrieve, which would have rescued Captain James T. Kirk and Dr. Leonard McCoy from Qo'noS. (TOS film: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country).
Following her graduation from Starfleet Academy in 2321, acting Lieutenant j.g. Rachel Garrett was assigned to the Endeavour while on its patrolof the Romulan Neutral Zone. Rachel Garrett eventually rises in rank to command the USS Enterprise-C (TNG episode).
If you like neat little tid-bits like this, as I do, you'll find them by browsing around the links I provided above. There's plenty of neat stuff there.
Again...watch out for spoilers!
saundby
January 2nd, 2009, 06:08 PM
It's interesting to see the sphere and cylinder ship on the covers above. It looks like one of the original concepts for the Enterprise.
Supplement Four
January 2nd, 2009, 08:15 PM
It's interesting to see the sphere and cylinder ship on the covers above. It looks like one of the original concepts for the Enterprise.
You are correct. That's the Daedalus class starship. Originally, it was a design for the Enterprise that was rejected. Then, a model of the ship started showing up as set pieces in the various Star Trek shows. In literature, the ship was made canon in the universe as one of the early Starfleet starship designs.
I think the design is kind of neat because it looks like a merging of Starfleet and real world space vehicle design.
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/meshes/gallery/daedalus_01.jpg
Here is an excellent web site on this class of starship: http://www.daedalusclass.com/
The USS Archon, from TOS episode The Return of the Archons, was said to be a Daedalus class cruiser. So was the USS Horizon, that was said to visit the world of Sigma Iotia II, where TOS episode A Piece of the Action took place.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dreamworld/2460/database/1891.jpg
In the novel, Starfleet: Year One, by Jan Michael Friedman, competition among the early Starfleet's captains for command of the first Daedalus was one of the main plot threads.
In the Vanguard series, the USS Lovell is featured (on the cover of the prequel story and on the cover of Summon The Thunder).
The Daedalus class is quite popular in the universe, and you'll see the ship referenced in all sorts of Trek stories, shows, and video games.
http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/CanisD/Shipyard/Drawings/ST/Cutler/Daedalus.png
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9749/daed2.gif
You are correct. That's the Daedalus class starship. Originally, it was a design for the Enterprise that was rejected. Then, a model of the ship started showing up as set pieces in the various Star Trek shows. In literature, the ship was made canon in the universe as one of the early Starfleet starship designs.
I think the design is kind of neat because it looks like a merging of Starfleet and real world space vehicle design.
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/meshes/gallery/daedalus_01.jpg
Here is an excellent web site on this class of starship: http://www.daedalusclass.com/
The USS Archon, from TOS episode The Return of the Archons, was said to be a Daedalus class cruiser. So was the USS Horizon, that was said to visit the world of Sigma Iotia II, where TOS episode A Piece of the Action took place.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dreamworld/2460/database/1891.jpg
In the novel, Starfleet: Year One, by Jan Michael Friedman, competition among the early Starfleet's captains for command of the first Daedalus was one of the main plot threads.
In the Vanguard series, the USS Lovell is featured (on the cover of the prequel story and on the cover of Summon The Thunder).
The Daedalus class is quite popular in the universe, and you'll see the ship referenced in all sorts of Trek stories, shows, and video games.
http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/CanisD/Shipyard/Drawings/ST/Cutler/Daedalus.png
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9749/daed2.gif
Supplement Four
January 5th, 2009, 01:55 AM
Here's a question:
As I read, I like to picture in my mind's eye what a character looks like. In the case of Vanguard, I'll look up an alien or a character on the net, if possible, or I'll think of an actor that fits the description in the text. For example, the way Commodore Diego Reyes is described (not just his looks, but the way he acts as well) reminds me of Jimmy Smits--so much so that I wonder if David Mack also pictured him as the character when he wrote the book.
Commodore Diego Reyes, sans the new, gold, Starfleet uniform.
http://celebrity-pics.movieeye.com/celebrity_pictures/Jimmy_Smits_964122.jpg
There are a couple of mentions about the Starfleet uniform change in the first Vanguard book, Harbinger. Kirk likes the new mini-skirts.
Captain Hallie Gannon commands the Bombay, a Miranda-class starship assigned to Vanguard.
My question is this: Does Captain Gannon wear a mini-skirt, the new Starfleet uniform?
I mean, if you life depended on it, would you take orders from this person?
http://img.costumecraze.com/images/vendors/rubies/15201R-main.jpg
Or, does command slide down the throat a little better when your Captain is wearing pants?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/1902734438_a93af4c454.jpg?v=0
As I read, I like to picture in my mind's eye what a character looks like. In the case of Vanguard, I'll look up an alien or a character on the net, if possible, or I'll think of an actor that fits the description in the text. For example, the way Commodore Diego Reyes is described (not just his looks, but the way he acts as well) reminds me of Jimmy Smits--so much so that I wonder if David Mack also pictured him as the character when he wrote the book.
Commodore Diego Reyes, sans the new, gold, Starfleet uniform.
http://celebrity-pics.movieeye.com/celebrity_pictures/Jimmy_Smits_964122.jpg
There are a couple of mentions about the Starfleet uniform change in the first Vanguard book, Harbinger. Kirk likes the new mini-skirts.
Captain Hallie Gannon commands the Bombay, a Miranda-class starship assigned to Vanguard.
My question is this: Does Captain Gannon wear a mini-skirt, the new Starfleet uniform?
I mean, if you life depended on it, would you take orders from this person?
http://img.costumecraze.com/images/vendors/rubies/15201R-main.jpg
Or, does command slide down the throat a little better when your Captain is wearing pants?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/1902734438_a93af4c454.jpg?v=0
Supplement Four
January 5th, 2009, 02:07 AM
Are there Starfleet uniforms we haven't seen?
There certainly could be. The series hints at them. Besides dress uniforms....
McCoy wears a short sleeved medical smock when in sickbay sometimes:
http://www.marketaz.co.uk/StarTrek/McCOY/Changling.gif
Kirk has his wrap-around tunic:
http://civilservant.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/kirk.jpg
Cadets wore a similar uniform:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/3/34/K-7_brawl.jpg
And, there are several work/athletic/and protective outfits we've seen on the show:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/a/a6/Laughing_crewman.jpg
So, what is your speculation?
Do you think Starfleet female captains of this era wear miniskirts or some other uniform we haven't seen?
There certainly could be. The series hints at them. Besides dress uniforms....
McCoy wears a short sleeved medical smock when in sickbay sometimes:
http://www.marketaz.co.uk/StarTrek/McCOY/Changling.gif
Kirk has his wrap-around tunic:
http://civilservant.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/kirk.jpg
Cadets wore a similar uniform:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/3/34/K-7_brawl.jpg
And, there are several work/athletic/and protective outfits we've seen on the show:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/a/a6/Laughing_crewman.jpg
So, what is your speculation?
Do you think Starfleet female captains of this era wear miniskirts or some other uniform we haven't seen?
Supplement Four
January 5th, 2009, 02:10 AM
I was wrong about David Mack picturing Jimmy Smits in the role of Commodore Diego Reyes. Instead, he thinks of Tommy Lee Jones when he writes him.
Check out David's web site here: http://www.infinitydog.com/harbinger_annotations.html
You will find who he thinks of for all the major characters in the Vanguard series (Bridget Moynaham as T'Prynn...Yum!) as well as see annotations for each of the chapters in the first book.
Check out David's web site here: http://www.infinitydog.com/harbinger_annotations.html
You will find who he thinks of for all the major characters in the Vanguard series (Bridget Moynaham as T'Prynn...Yum!) as well as see annotations for each of the chapters in the first book.
aramis
January 5th, 2009, 02:41 AM
I've no problem taking orders from females in miniskirts, provided they have the known authority. I had to do so on many occasions in my life... including in 8th grade Social Studies (and am scarred for life by it... Mrs. Queen was in excess of 300#, 5'2", and wore miniskirts).
And Dr. Dehner just doesn't exude competence nor authority despite the trews.
And Dr. Dehner just doesn't exude competence nor authority despite the trews.
tbeard1999
January 5th, 2009, 05:45 AM
The Fed DD is useful in one role that isn't useful in most SFB games...Retrograde movement, firing proximity torps...
Unfortunately, most games were fought on fixed maps, making this not all that useful.
The chief problem with retrograde tactics -- including the much-fawned upon "Kaufman retrograde" maneuver -- is that they assume that your opponent will foolishly pursue you.
Personally, I don't put much stock in tactics that require my opponent to be a moron. Or that require a strategically absurd condition -- a decision to fight a major action where there is no particular reason for either side to do so (i.e., the map completely "floats").
Unfortunately, most games were fought on fixed maps, making this not all that useful.
The chief problem with retrograde tactics -- including the much-fawned upon "Kaufman retrograde" maneuver -- is that they assume that your opponent will foolishly pursue you.
Personally, I don't put much stock in tactics that require my opponent to be a moron. Or that require a strategically absurd condition -- a decision to fight a major action where there is no particular reason for either side to do so (i.e., the map completely "floats").
spinwardpirate
January 5th, 2009, 10:04 AM
I'm going to have to stop reading these threads... because if I don't I'm going to want to run a Traveller Trek rpg session, and I haven't even started my Traveller Firefly game yet!
Supplement Four
January 5th, 2009, 05:30 PM
I'm going to have to stop reading these threads... because if I don't I'm going to want to run a Traveller Trek rpg session, and I haven't even started my Traveller Firefly game yet!
I've often thought what a Classic Trek game would be like using the Classic Traveller rules. I have a lot of the FASA Star Trek game (which is brilliant), though, so I've never switched from that game when the Trek mood hit me.
(PS: Go read the Vanguard books...they're GREAT!)
Very minor spoiler...but a spoiler nonetheless, so I hid it:
David Mack really knows his Trek. Just look at his web page I posted and check out the annotations. There's a scene where Scotty sneaks off from the Enterprise to visit an Orion crime lord operating out of Vanguard. He's gone there for....something to drink...something exotic.
What he gets, he tastes, coughs, and says, "What is that, lad?"
The answer is: "It's green."
Which is quite neat, if you know your Trek, because in the Classic episode By Any Other Name, Scotty gets drunk and is asked what they're drinking. Scott replies, "It's green."
So...we've just seen where Scott got the bottle to use in that episode.
I love that kind of stuff.
I've often thought what a Classic Trek game would be like using the Classic Traveller rules. I have a lot of the FASA Star Trek game (which is brilliant), though, so I've never switched from that game when the Trek mood hit me.
(PS: Go read the Vanguard books...they're GREAT!)
Very minor spoiler...but a spoiler nonetheless, so I hid it:
David Mack really knows his Trek. Just look at his web page I posted and check out the annotations. There's a scene where Scotty sneaks off from the Enterprise to visit an Orion crime lord operating out of Vanguard. He's gone there for....something to drink...something exotic.
What he gets, he tastes, coughs, and says, "What is that, lad?"
The answer is: "It's green."
Which is quite neat, if you know your Trek, because in the Classic episode By Any Other Name, Scotty gets drunk and is asked what they're drinking. Scott replies, "It's green."
So...we've just seen where Scott got the bottle to use in that episode.
I love that kind of stuff.
Supplement Four
January 5th, 2009, 05:33 PM
I've no problem taking orders from females in miniskirts, provided they have the known authority.
I dunno. I can't see some 45 year old Captain, sitting in the center seat, wearing one of those Classic Trek mini-skirts.
I had to do so on many occasions in my life... including in 8th grade Social Studies (and am scarred for life by it... Mrs. Queen was in excess of 300#, 5'2", and wore miniskirts).
:p
And Dr. Dehner just doesn't exude competence nor authority despite the trews.
Naw, I agree. Neither does Janeway, and she wore pants.
I was trying to speculate on what female Captains wore during this era of the Trek universe.
I, personally, think it's a uniform we haven't seen (because we never saw a female Captain before TMP came out).
I bet it has pants and looks more like Dehner's uniform than Uhura's.
I dunno. I can't see some 45 year old Captain, sitting in the center seat, wearing one of those Classic Trek mini-skirts.
I had to do so on many occasions in my life... including in 8th grade Social Studies (and am scarred for life by it... Mrs. Queen was in excess of 300#, 5'2", and wore miniskirts).
:p
And Dr. Dehner just doesn't exude competence nor authority despite the trews.
Naw, I agree. Neither does Janeway, and she wore pants.
I was trying to speculate on what female Captains wore during this era of the Trek universe.
I, personally, think it's a uniform we haven't seen (because we never saw a female Captain before TMP came out).
I bet it has pants and looks more like Dehner's uniform than Uhura's.
tbeard1999
January 5th, 2009, 06:09 PM
Which is quite neat, if you know your Trek, because in the Classic episode By Any Other Name, Scotty gets drunk and is asked what they're drinking. Scott replies, "It's green."
So...we've just seen where Scott got the bottle to use in that episode.
I love that kind of stuff.[/sblock]
I do too, but when Scotty states this in By Any Other Name, he's "blind drunk". He makes an obvious attempt to read the label, fails, then pronounces that "it's green".
Still, a nice hat tip to us Classic Trek Alphanerds.
So...we've just seen where Scott got the bottle to use in that episode.
I love that kind of stuff.[/sblock]
I do too, but when Scotty states this in By Any Other Name, he's "blind drunk". He makes an obvious attempt to read the label, fails, then pronounces that "it's green".
Still, a nice hat tip to us Classic Trek Alphanerds.
Supplement Four
January 5th, 2009, 06:30 PM
I do too, but when Scotty states this in By Any Other Name, he's "blind drunk". He makes an obvious attempt to read the label, fails, then pronounces that "it's green".
Still, a nice hat tip to us Classic Trek Alphanerds.
The scene is set up quite nicely. Immediately preceeding it, there is a scene aboard the Bombay. The Engineer is going nuts. He thought he had three weeks but now is told the vessel will be shipping out in 12 hours. Everything that could go wrong is going wrong. The cargo master has misplaced spare parts. Junior techs have uploaded a computer upgrade, requiring the computer be shut-down, when the rest of engineering desperately needs the computer to finish repairs on time. Only half impulse will be available unless more time is taken...etc.
The scene ends with the Engineer calling the Bombay's first officer, who is known for being able to aquire certain items when the quartermaster says the items are not available.
Then, we cut to Scotty, aboard the Enterprise. Kirk's ship isn't in that great a state of repair either, having just returned from the energy barrier at that edge of the galaxy (Where No Man Has Gone Before).
But, late at night, Scotty find a moment to sneak off.
It's an easy connection to think that Scotty is going to help out the Bombay...but this is not the case! Scotty ends up at the hatch to the Orion ship...(and the rest is in the mini-spoiler above).
It was well written, setting up one expectation, but getting something else, then tying the outcome in with a moment from the Classic series.
It's one of the reasons I love this series so much.
Still, a nice hat tip to us Classic Trek Alphanerds.
The scene is set up quite nicely. Immediately preceeding it, there is a scene aboard the Bombay. The Engineer is going nuts. He thought he had three weeks but now is told the vessel will be shipping out in 12 hours. Everything that could go wrong is going wrong. The cargo master has misplaced spare parts. Junior techs have uploaded a computer upgrade, requiring the computer be shut-down, when the rest of engineering desperately needs the computer to finish repairs on time. Only half impulse will be available unless more time is taken...etc.
The scene ends with the Engineer calling the Bombay's first officer, who is known for being able to aquire certain items when the quartermaster says the items are not available.
Then, we cut to Scotty, aboard the Enterprise. Kirk's ship isn't in that great a state of repair either, having just returned from the energy barrier at that edge of the galaxy (Where No Man Has Gone Before).
But, late at night, Scotty find a moment to sneak off.
It's an easy connection to think that Scotty is going to help out the Bombay...but this is not the case! Scotty ends up at the hatch to the Orion ship...(and the rest is in the mini-spoiler above).
It was well written, setting up one expectation, but getting something else, then tying the outcome in with a moment from the Classic series.
It's one of the reasons I love this series so much.
spinwardpirate
January 5th, 2009, 07:23 PM
I was trying to speculate on what female Captains wore during this era of the Trek universe.
I know I've seen pants on women in the background... I'm just not sure how far into the series the practice continues.
I know I've seen pants on women in the background... I'm just not sure how far into the series the practice continues.
spinwardpirate
January 5th, 2009, 07:29 PM
I've often thought what a Classic Trek game would be like using the Classic Traveller rules. I have a lot of the FASA Star Trek game (which is brilliant), though, so I've never switched from that game when the Trek mood hit me.
(PS: Go read the Vanguard books...they're GREAT!)
Thanks for the recommendation. I may take you up on it. Though I'll admit I haven't been able to read fiction in awhile. Then again, I haven't tried reading Trek fiction in a couple decades... so maybe I could actual handle something like that.
(PS: Go read the Vanguard books...they're GREAT!)
Thanks for the recommendation. I may take you up on it. Though I'll admit I haven't been able to read fiction in awhile. Then again, I haven't tried reading Trek fiction in a couple decades... so maybe I could actual handle something like that.
aramis
January 5th, 2009, 07:59 PM
S4: I suspect that captains will wear whichever uniform option works their legs better in their own opinion...
Having had a female player choose the "skant pattern" for her character when playing a ship's CO...
Now, I know it's bad form, but we see that in TNG, the skant pattern is used by both genders* (There is a walk-across by a vulcan male in skant pattern in TNG season 1 or 2). I don't see why the choice wouldn't be their own to make.
I do suspect the younger the officer, the more likely to choose skant over trousers.
Having had a female player choose the "skant pattern" for her character when playing a ship's CO...
Now, I know it's bad form, but we see that in TNG, the skant pattern is used by both genders* (There is a walk-across by a vulcan male in skant pattern in TNG season 1 or 2). I don't see why the choice wouldn't be their own to make.
I do suspect the younger the officer, the more likely to choose skant over trousers.
Supplement Four
January 9th, 2009, 02:49 AM
This is an excellent pic of what the USS Bombay probably looks like...
http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/downloads/Copernicus_1024x768.jpg
http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/downloads/Copernicus_1024x768.jpg
spinwardpirate
January 9th, 2009, 08:28 AM
Sweet! Is that new? I haven't seen that until now.
Supplement Four
January 9th, 2009, 09:21 AM
Sweet! Is that new? I haven't seen that until now.
It was a Miranda class created for the Star Trek fan show: Star Trek The New Voyages.
I've seen a lot of Miranda's, and they all are a little different. Maybe it's a customizeable, workhorse class (that's the way the ship is used in Vanguard, anyway).
Look up thread a bit, and you'll see a schematic of one with a retractible sensor/deflector dish.
It was a Miranda class created for the Star Trek fan show: Star Trek The New Voyages.
I've seen a lot of Miranda's, and they all are a little different. Maybe it's a customizeable, workhorse class (that's the way the ship is used in Vanguard, anyway).
Look up thread a bit, and you'll see a schematic of one with a retractible sensor/deflector dish.
BlackBat242
January 10th, 2009, 01:06 AM
The main hull & engines of the Mirandas seem to be standard (depending on TOS-era or movie-era version), but the modules above the main hull seem to be the point of specialization... perhaps they can be changed out at a Starbase... or removed altogether?
Supplement Four
January 10th, 2009, 01:19 AM
The main hull & engines of the Mirandas seem to be standard (depending on TOS-era or movie-era version), but the modules above the main hull seem to be the point of specialization... perhaps they can be changed out at a Starbase... or removed altogether?
That seems like a major job. I was thinking more along the lines of the specific ship class customized for a particular job. For example, the German halftracks in WWII were used for all sorts of stuff: as ambulances; troop carriers; mobile mortars; MG ground support; cargo carriers; etc.
Maybe the Miranda cruiser is a workhorse who's general schematic can be easily altered for whatever job the ship is built to do.
That seems like a major job. I was thinking more along the lines of the specific ship class customized for a particular job. For example, the German halftracks in WWII were used for all sorts of stuff: as ambulances; troop carriers; mobile mortars; MG ground support; cargo carriers; etc.
Maybe the Miranda cruiser is a workhorse who's general schematic can be easily altered for whatever job the ship is built to do.
saundby
January 11th, 2009, 07:30 PM
Secondary hull kitbashed from a phaser?
It has an interesting look to it. Not sure why the struts supporting the warp drives couldn't be hung directly off the beefed-up saucer. The running-through look is kinda cool, but the aero engineer in me is screaming. :D
Especially if the secondary hulls change out, or aren't part of the base design, seems like it'd make more sense to make it like a Tug--warp drives off the saucer, then hang a secondary hull off the saucer any way it pleases you without having to worry about the structural effects of the secondary change-out. *shrug* IOW a tug but with the beefed up saucer and the attach point above rather than below the saucer and shorter warp pylons so they don't look quite as dorky sticking out nine miles without a container to balance their appearance.
At any rate, it's fun all the effects you can get playing with the bits of the original ships.
It has an interesting look to it. Not sure why the struts supporting the warp drives couldn't be hung directly off the beefed-up saucer. The running-through look is kinda cool, but the aero engineer in me is screaming. :D
Especially if the secondary hulls change out, or aren't part of the base design, seems like it'd make more sense to make it like a Tug--warp drives off the saucer, then hang a secondary hull off the saucer any way it pleases you without having to worry about the structural effects of the secondary change-out. *shrug* IOW a tug but with the beefed up saucer and the attach point above rather than below the saucer and shorter warp pylons so they don't look quite as dorky sticking out nine miles without a container to balance their appearance.
At any rate, it's fun all the effects you can get playing with the bits of the original ships.
Supplement Four
January 11th, 2009, 08:13 PM
Not sure why the struts supporting the warp drives couldn't be hung directly off the beefed-up saucer. The running-through look is kinda cool, but the aero engineer in me is screaming. :D
Struts also connect the sensor/deflector array because...most economical and it works? Dunno. Just a thought.
At any rate, it's fun all the effects you can get playing with the bits of the original ships.
You think its a model? I think its CGI.
Or, are you saying you think it is CGI using the original bits?
Struts also connect the sensor/deflector array because...most economical and it works? Dunno. Just a thought.
At any rate, it's fun all the effects you can get playing with the bits of the original ships.
You think its a model? I think its CGI.
Or, are you saying you think it is CGI using the original bits?
Supplement Four
January 11th, 2009, 08:16 PM
I think she's a damn good looking ship that fits TOS era.
Here's a couple more views:
http://www.belluccidesigns.com/images/model_Copernicus_secondary_1.jpg
http://www.belluccidesigns.com/images/model_Copernicus_secondary_2.jpg
Here's a couple more views:
http://www.belluccidesigns.com/images/model_Copernicus_secondary_1.jpg
http://www.belluccidesigns.com/images/model_Copernicus_secondary_2.jpg
Supplement Four
January 11th, 2009, 08:38 PM
Nifty Star Trek visual sites:
http://www.strekschematics.utvinternet.com/index.html
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/index.htm
http://www.informatik.tu-cottbus.de/~tweimann/pages/frames/frame_logos.htm
http://www.informatik.tu-cottbus.de/~tweimann/pages/frames/frame_schematics.html
The 3D bridge illos. from the second link are phenomenal.
http://www.strekschematics.utvinternet.com/index.html
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/index.htm
http://www.informatik.tu-cottbus.de/~tweimann/pages/frames/frame_logos.htm
http://www.informatik.tu-cottbus.de/~tweimann/pages/frames/frame_schematics.html
The 3D bridge illos. from the second link are phenomenal.
Rhialto the Marvelous
January 11th, 2009, 09:43 PM
The 3D bridge illos. from the second link are phenomenal.
They are indeed! Thanks very much for those links.
They are indeed! Thanks very much for those links.
Supplement Four
January 12th, 2009, 11:16 PM
The running-through look is kinda cool, but the aero engineer in me is screaming. :D
What does the engineer in you say about the Reliant, from TWoK?
I mean, was there no other way to mount the photon torpedo launcher?
And, how does the crew get to the launcher bay? Use the transporter (during combat with energy spikes)? Tiny stairwell accessways? It's totally automated?
http://www.cnd-fx.com/ftp/junk/render/collection/reliant.jpg
What does the engineer in you say about the Reliant, from TWoK?
I mean, was there no other way to mount the photon torpedo launcher?
And, how does the crew get to the launcher bay? Use the transporter (during combat with energy spikes)? Tiny stairwell accessways? It's totally automated?
http://www.cnd-fx.com/ftp/junk/render/collection/reliant.jpg
saundby
January 13th, 2009, 12:29 AM
What does the engineer in you say about the Reliant, from TWoK?
I mean, was there no other way to mount the photon torpedo launcher?
And, how does the crew get to the launcher bay? Use the transporter (during combat with energy spikes)? Tiny stairwell accessways? It's totally automated?
Don't get me started on the ships from the motion pictures... :D
Dang worthless Klingon-built warp drives. Don't they have rules about who gets a military contract? ;)
I'm guessing the Reliant puts their short timers in the boom. Saves the Federation countless credits on mustering out benefits.
I think the Mirandas are cool-looking ships, don't get me wrong. As to bits of the ships, I mean the pieces from the original series ships. The phaser comment was just an observation on the shape of the secondary hull. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw it. Whether it's CGI or models, no matter.
I still don't see an advantage in running the pylons through a hull, besides the look. Practically, however, I can only see problems with doing it that way. Better to just attach warp drive pylons to the saucer than to run through it. Or miss it entirely if you have to go to the secondary hull. If things are going to shake, distort, or whatever you don't want to be feeding them through another structure like that. If it's not one continuous structure, why put such a big stress point by attaching to both sides of the saucer like that? Better to make a separate secondary hull attachment.
I mean, was there no other way to mount the photon torpedo launcher?
And, how does the crew get to the launcher bay? Use the transporter (during combat with energy spikes)? Tiny stairwell accessways? It's totally automated?
Don't get me started on the ships from the motion pictures... :D
Dang worthless Klingon-built warp drives. Don't they have rules about who gets a military contract? ;)
I'm guessing the Reliant puts their short timers in the boom. Saves the Federation countless credits on mustering out benefits.
I think the Mirandas are cool-looking ships, don't get me wrong. As to bits of the ships, I mean the pieces from the original series ships. The phaser comment was just an observation on the shape of the secondary hull. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw it. Whether it's CGI or models, no matter.
I still don't see an advantage in running the pylons through a hull, besides the look. Practically, however, I can only see problems with doing it that way. Better to just attach warp drive pylons to the saucer than to run through it. Or miss it entirely if you have to go to the secondary hull. If things are going to shake, distort, or whatever you don't want to be feeding them through another structure like that. If it's not one continuous structure, why put such a big stress point by attaching to both sides of the saucer like that? Better to make a separate secondary hull attachment.
spinwardpirate
January 13th, 2009, 10:04 AM
Wow. Very nice.
Supplement Four
January 13th, 2009, 11:27 PM
Here's a couple more Starfleet vessels from TOS era.
First, the old, venerable, Loknar class Frigate...
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Loknar-A.jpg
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Loknar-B.jpg
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Loknar-C.jpg
First, the old, venerable, Loknar class Frigate...
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Loknar-A.jpg
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Loknar-B.jpg
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Loknar-C.jpg
Supplement Four
January 13th, 2009, 11:30 PM
And the Larson class Destroyer...
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Larson-A.jpg
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Larson-B.jpg
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Larson-C.jpg
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Larson-A.jpg
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Larson-B.jpg
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Fasa/Federation/Fasa-F-Larson-C.jpg
aramis
January 14th, 2009, 01:12 AM
couple of things about the Larson: the Saladin of the SFTM appears on a monitor in STTMP, and names from the list in the SFTM are used in the radio chatter in same; the larson is FASA-Trek.
I also detest double-strut-to-single-nacelle.
I also detest double-strut-to-single-nacelle.
GypsyComet
January 14th, 2009, 02:20 AM
the larson is FASA-Trek.
So is the Loknar.
So is the Loknar.
aramis
January 14th, 2009, 02:37 AM
So is the Loknar.
Yes, but it doesn't rub me nearly as wrong, and doesn't have a soft nor hard canon parallel to supplant it. (I consider the SFTM ships soft-canon, since they appear only on displays, and their names and NCC numbers are used in background chatter. Hard canon would be showing them onscreen.)
Generally, I dislike the FASA-esque flat-extensions to the saucers, too. It doesn't feel right.
Now, the Miranda version with the Ent. Secondary hull upside down doesn't work well for me, either... since it's too OBVIOUSLY just a kitbash.
Yes, but it doesn't rub me nearly as wrong, and doesn't have a soft nor hard canon parallel to supplant it. (I consider the SFTM ships soft-canon, since they appear only on displays, and their names and NCC numbers are used in background chatter. Hard canon would be showing them onscreen.)
Generally, I dislike the FASA-esque flat-extensions to the saucers, too. It doesn't feel right.
Now, the Miranda version with the Ent. Secondary hull upside down doesn't work well for me, either... since it's too OBVIOUSLY just a kitbash.
Supplement Four
January 14th, 2009, 06:22 PM
Now, the Miranda version with the Ent. Secondary hull upside down doesn't work well for me, either... since it's too OBVIOUSLY just a kitbash.
It only looks like that from the side. The shape of the sensor/deflector pod is much more square and doesn't resemble the Constitituion class secondary hull except from the side. Take a look at the first picture I posted of her.
It only looks like that from the side. The shape of the sensor/deflector pod is much more square and doesn't resemble the Constitituion class secondary hull except from the side. Take a look at the first picture I posted of her.
Supplement Four
January 15th, 2009, 07:24 PM
Here's an not-seen-often design of a Starfleet vessel from TOS era.
This is the USS Antares. A cargo vessel. Some vessles, in a sub-class, are a bit shorter and are totally robotic. Pictured here is the crewed version (20, or so, crew members).
http://3d.merknet.com/free/antares/antares1.jpg
http://3d.merknet.com/free/antares/antares_left.jpg
http://3d.merknet.com/free/antares/antares_top.jpg
http://3d.merknet.com/free/antares/320x240.jpg
This is the USS Antares. A cargo vessel. Some vessles, in a sub-class, are a bit shorter and are totally robotic. Pictured here is the crewed version (20, or so, crew members).
http://3d.merknet.com/free/antares/antares1.jpg
http://3d.merknet.com/free/antares/antares_left.jpg
http://3d.merknet.com/free/antares/antares_top.jpg
http://3d.merknet.com/free/antares/320x240.jpg
aramis
January 15th, 2009, 07:51 PM
Now, that Antares does work for me... kind of... but I guess it's canon now, eh?
Rhialto the Marvelous
January 15th, 2009, 08:05 PM
Now, that Antares does work for me... kind of...
It does??
I was about to say the only vessel that looks even more like a kitchen implement is the Donozev. :devil:
OK, admittedly the last image is tolerable.
It does??
I was about to say the only vessel that looks even more like a kitchen implement is the Donozev. :devil:
OK, admittedly the last image is tolerable.
aramis
January 15th, 2009, 08:29 PM
It does??
OK, admittedly the last image is tolerable.
The overall proportions are about the same as the enterprise. She's ugly as sin, but she's proportioned right.
OK, admittedly the last image is tolerable.
The overall proportions are about the same as the enterprise. She's ugly as sin, but she's proportioned right.
Supplement Four
January 15th, 2009, 09:09 PM
Now, that Antares does work for me... kind of... but I guess it's canon now, eh?
Yep. What's interesting is that the design first saw life in the Animated Series. There's an article on the net that discusses how the ship's designer took that vessel, from TAS, and slapped a pod on the front for the crew (as TAS vessel was robotic).
http://3d.merknet.com/free/antares/tas.jpg
The Antares appears in the remastered version of Charlie X. One thing I like about that episode is that the crew of the Antares are still wearing the old uniforms (re: the uniform switch mentioned at least three times in Vanguard's first book, Harbinger) while Kirk and crew have the new ones.
In Harbinger, it was the Enterprise crew still in the old uniforms, and actually updateing them, on their first stop at Vanguard.
In Charlie X, the old cargo vessel's crew haven't got the uniform changes yet, while the crew of the Constitution-class have.
http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200506/tos-008-capt-ramart/320x240.jpg
It does??
I was about to say the only vessel that looks even more like a kitchen implement is the Donozev. :devil:
OK, admittedly the last image is tolerable.
What!!!
I LOVE the Donosev!
http://www.tedlindsey.com/art/art/traveller_3d_files/page6-1002-full.jpg
How can you not love the Donosev?!
As for the last pic of the Antares, that's the screenshot from the show. The top three views are a fan's CGI model of the ship.
The overall proportions are about the same as the enterprise. She's ugly as sin, but she's proportioned right.
Look again. The Antares is actually much smaller than just the Enterprise's secondary hull (although it's almost as long as the secondary hull). Given the Antares design, it's volumn has got to be about 30% of the secondary hull of the Enterprise or there abouts.
Yep. What's interesting is that the design first saw life in the Animated Series. There's an article on the net that discusses how the ship's designer took that vessel, from TAS, and slapped a pod on the front for the crew (as TAS vessel was robotic).
http://3d.merknet.com/free/antares/tas.jpg
The Antares appears in the remastered version of Charlie X. One thing I like about that episode is that the crew of the Antares are still wearing the old uniforms (re: the uniform switch mentioned at least three times in Vanguard's first book, Harbinger) while Kirk and crew have the new ones.
In Harbinger, it was the Enterprise crew still in the old uniforms, and actually updateing them, on their first stop at Vanguard.
In Charlie X, the old cargo vessel's crew haven't got the uniform changes yet, while the crew of the Constitution-class have.
http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200506/tos-008-capt-ramart/320x240.jpg
It does??
I was about to say the only vessel that looks even more like a kitchen implement is the Donozev. :devil:
OK, admittedly the last image is tolerable.
What!!!
I LOVE the Donosev!
http://www.tedlindsey.com/art/art/traveller_3d_files/page6-1002-full.jpg
How can you not love the Donosev?!
As for the last pic of the Antares, that's the screenshot from the show. The top three views are a fan's CGI model of the ship.
The overall proportions are about the same as the enterprise. She's ugly as sin, but she's proportioned right.
Look again. The Antares is actually much smaller than just the Enterprise's secondary hull (although it's almost as long as the secondary hull). Given the Antares design, it's volumn has got to be about 30% of the secondary hull of the Enterprise or there abouts.
Rhialto the Marvelous
January 15th, 2009, 09:24 PM
I LOVE the Donosev!
Me too.
It does look a bit like a kitchen implement. :(
But I love it anyway. :D
Me too.
It does look a bit like a kitchen implement. :(
But I love it anyway. :D
Supplement Four
January 16th, 2009, 12:43 AM
Here's a civilian starship from the TOS era: The Aurora
It looks Buck Rogers-y and Flash Gordon-y to me.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/5/52/Aurora_remastered.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/a/aa/Aurora_profile.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/0/00/Aurora_aft.jpg
It looks Buck Rogers-y and Flash Gordon-y to me.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/5/52/Aurora_remastered.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/a/aa/Aurora_profile.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/0/00/Aurora_aft.jpg
aramis
January 16th, 2009, 03:18 AM
Yep. What's interesting is that the design first saw life in the Animated Series. There's an article on the net that discusses how the ship's designer took that vessel, from TAS, and slapped a pod on the front for the crew (as TAS vessel was robotic).
TAS is, according to both Roddenberry (before he died) and Paramount, not canon.
It is, however, in-bounds for SFU... hence Kzin.
Look again. The Antares is actually much smaller than just the Enterprise's secondary hull (although it's almost as long as the secondary hull). Given the Antares design, it's volumn has got to be about 30% of the secondary hull of the Enterprise or there abouts.
I didn't say same size, I said same proportions. HUGE difference.
And I, too, think the Donosev not a bad design. I've used it in campaigns twice. Both times, lost with all hands due to some REALLY sucky rolls.
TAS is, according to both Roddenberry (before he died) and Paramount, not canon.
It is, however, in-bounds for SFU... hence Kzin.
Look again. The Antares is actually much smaller than just the Enterprise's secondary hull (although it's almost as long as the secondary hull). Given the Antares design, it's volumn has got to be about 30% of the secondary hull of the Enterprise or there abouts.
I didn't say same size, I said same proportions. HUGE difference.
And I, too, think the Donosev not a bad design. I've used it in campaigns twice. Both times, lost with all hands due to some REALLY sucky rolls.
Supplement Four
January 16th, 2009, 09:59 AM
TAS is, according to both Roddenberry (before he died) and Paramount, not canon.
I didn't say TAS was canon. Neither are the Trek novels. The only thing in Trek considered canon are the shows (not the rpgs either, which is too bad).
What I agreed to was that the ship is cannon because it now shows up in Charlie X.
I didn't say TAS was canon. Neither are the Trek novels. The only thing in Trek considered canon are the shows (not the rpgs either, which is too bad).
What I agreed to was that the ship is cannon because it now shows up in Charlie X.
Supplement Four
May 3rd, 2009, 09:25 PM
FYI,
Star Trek Vanguard: Open Secrets by Dayton Ward is out. For those following this superb series.
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n56/n283022.jpg
@ Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Vanguard-Open-Secrets/dp/1416547924/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241400315&sr=1-1
Star Trek Vanguard: Open Secrets by Dayton Ward is out. For those following this superb series.
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n56/n283022.jpg
@ Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Vanguard-Open-Secrets/dp/1416547924/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241400315&sr=1-1
Supplement Four
August 1st, 2009, 08:44 PM
Coming in Novemember, the next book in the series:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/d/d4/Precipice_cover.jpg/292px-Precipice_cover.jpg
http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/vangaurd-info-break1.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/d/d4/Precipice_cover.jpg/292px-Precipice_cover.jpg
http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/vangaurd-info-break1.jpg
Supplement Four
January 28th, 2010, 11:00 PM
Unlike the pic up-thread, this is another interpretation of the USS Bombay, from the Vanguard series.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/4/42/TOS_Miranda.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/4/42/TOS_Miranda.jpg
Nightwind1
January 31st, 2010, 09:18 AM
Also note that the Enterprise Chief Medical Officer is Dr. Piper, who was Christopher Pike's CMO in "The Cage".
We see McCoy come aboard Enterprise in the first novel.
Actually, Phillip Boyce was Pike's CMO. Piper came on board sometime between Boyce and McCoy.
We see McCoy come aboard Enterprise in the first novel.
Actually, Phillip Boyce was Pike's CMO. Piper came on board sometime between Boyce and McCoy.
Supplement Four
January 31st, 2010, 01:33 PM
Actually, Phillip Boyce was Pike's CMO. Piper came on board sometime between Boyce and McCoy.
I stand corrected! Piper was in Where No Man Has Gone Before, not, The Cage.
I stand corrected! Piper was in Where No Man Has Gone Before, not, The Cage.
Blue Ghost
January 31st, 2010, 05:11 PM
I read all of the Bantam Novels, and liked about 2/5s of them. I tried reading the novelizations of the animated series, but couldn't get past the imagery of Toon-Trek. I read one or two of the novelizations of the 1960's show, but found Blish's artistic license to be "idealized" endings. Example; his Doomsday episode has Decker living, or so I recall. I then read some of the Del Rey "Timscape" novels, but wasn't too impressed with them either. I think I got to the third ... maybe fifth book in the series, before I put them down, then picked up others and read them sporadically.
I briefly read some passages of one of the novelizations that came out when TNG and DS9 were all the rage. Although the prose read well, I felt the whole franchise had been so bastardized by then that I simply couldn't take in anymore Trek.
An "acquaintance" of mine loaned me some of his Vanguard/other-original-era/series Trek books, but again, it's all tailored by marketing data, and not stories that authors conjured because they thoght they were important. But stories manufactured by higher ups based on what marketing data tells them readers want. To me it's pretty obvious when you read one of those.
I might give one a chance, but probably not for a while.
I briefly read some passages of one of the novelizations that came out when TNG and DS9 were all the rage. Although the prose read well, I felt the whole franchise had been so bastardized by then that I simply couldn't take in anymore Trek.
An "acquaintance" of mine loaned me some of his Vanguard/other-original-era/series Trek books, but again, it's all tailored by marketing data, and not stories that authors conjured because they thoght they were important. But stories manufactured by higher ups based on what marketing data tells them readers want. To me it's pretty obvious when you read one of those.
I might give one a chance, but probably not for a while.
Supplement Four
February 1st, 2010, 03:13 AM
An "acquaintance" of mine loaned me some of his Vanguard/other-original-era/series Trek books, but again, it's all tailored by marketing data, and not stories that authors conjured because they thoght they were important. But stories manufactured by higher ups based on what marketing data tells them readers want. To me it's pretty obvious when you read one of those.
I might give one a chance, but probably not for a while.
Mood counts for a lot. I wouldn't recommend you try Vangaurd if you're in the mood to read Conan or Bond or the latest John Grisham novel.
But, for those in the mood for some good, old school Trek (with a bit more bite than the original series), then Vangaurd is a damn good series.
I might give one a chance, but probably not for a while.
Mood counts for a lot. I wouldn't recommend you try Vangaurd if you're in the mood to read Conan or Bond or the latest John Grisham novel.
But, for those in the mood for some good, old school Trek (with a bit more bite than the original series), then Vangaurd is a damn good series.
Jeffr0
February 1st, 2010, 12:15 PM
Unlike the pic up-thread, this is another interpretation of the USS Bombay, from the Vanguard series.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/4/42/TOS_Miranda.jpg
Looks like a frigate from Star Fleet Battles...
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/4/42/TOS_Miranda.jpg
Looks like a frigate from Star Fleet Battles...
Blue Ghost
February 1st, 2010, 12:47 PM
Mood counts for a lot. I wouldn't recommend you try Vangaurd if you're in the mood to read Conan or Bond or the latest John Grisham novel.
But, for those in the mood for some good, old school Trek (with a bit more bite than the original series), then Vangaurd is a damn good series.
Funny you should mention Conan, because I did read the first volume by Robert Howard; unabridged in the order of publication. I personally think Conan is a criminal, and am not a fan of the character.
Old school Trek, to me, is about right and wrong melded with character and principle. This is not what any of the new wave of Trek books, regardless of era, are all about.
But, for those in the mood for some good, old school Trek (with a bit more bite than the original series), then Vangaurd is a damn good series.
Funny you should mention Conan, because I did read the first volume by Robert Howard; unabridged in the order of publication. I personally think Conan is a criminal, and am not a fan of the character.
Old school Trek, to me, is about right and wrong melded with character and principle. This is not what any of the new wave of Trek books, regardless of era, are all about.
aramis
February 1st, 2010, 01:55 PM
Funny you should mention Conan, because I did read the first volume by Robert Howard; unabridged in the order of publication. I personally think Conan is a criminal, and am not a fan of the character.
Old school Trek, to me, is about right and wrong melded with character and principle. This is not what any of the new wave of Trek books, regardless of era, are all about.
It's not just Trek; much of the 60's & 70's TV can bee seen as a series of morality plays: Trek, Bonanza, every cop show of the era, even up to Buck Rogers and (original) Battlestar Galactica.
The 80's, 90's and 2000's have been marked by a consistent move away from morality plays. (Going into all of the reasons why violates board rules. It's not just the end of the TV censors.)
The 1920's to 1940's saw a similar trend in literature, followed by a societal backlash against such in the late 40's and the 50's, and then a counter-revolution in the 60's and early 70's.
It's cyclical. I'll be happy when the current trend towards shades of gray and moral relativism fades. I miss my morality plays.
Old school Trek, to me, is about right and wrong melded with character and principle. This is not what any of the new wave of Trek books, regardless of era, are all about.
It's not just Trek; much of the 60's & 70's TV can bee seen as a series of morality plays: Trek, Bonanza, every cop show of the era, even up to Buck Rogers and (original) Battlestar Galactica.
The 80's, 90's and 2000's have been marked by a consistent move away from morality plays. (Going into all of the reasons why violates board rules. It's not just the end of the TV censors.)
The 1920's to 1940's saw a similar trend in literature, followed by a societal backlash against such in the late 40's and the 50's, and then a counter-revolution in the 60's and early 70's.
It's cyclical. I'll be happy when the current trend towards shades of gray and moral relativism fades. I miss my morality plays.
Blue Ghost
February 1st, 2010, 05:04 PM
It's not just Trek; much of the 60's & 70's TV can bee seen as a series of morality plays: Trek, Bonanza, every cop show of the era, even up to Buck Rogers and (original) Battlestar Galactica.
The 80's, 90's and 2000's have been marked by a consistent move away from morality plays. (Going into all of the reasons why violates board rules. It's not just the end of the TV censors.)
The 1920's to 1940's saw a similar trend in literature, followed by a societal backlash against such in the late 40's and the 50's, and then a counter-revolution in the 60's and early 70's.
It's cyclical. I'll be happy when the current trend towards shades of gray and moral relativism fades. I miss my morality plays.
Which is what my stuff is all about.
Which is why I truly dislike Star Trek in all its recent forms, even claims to harken back to "classic Trek": Reason; because in Classic Trek, the characters wouldn't squabble over whose psychological genitalia is larger than the other guy's (sentient, sophont ... whatever Trek-geek-speak term you want to use).
When I cracked open one of the new market-driven "let's turn back the clock to classic trek" books, and I think it may have been a Vanguard book, I was pretty repelled by, again, market tailored "literature". The prose reads well, in fact far superior to what I could write in terms of combining words, but the story is vapid to the core.
One of the great stunts that Roddenberry pulled off was to take some real world issues and draw parallels to men's personal lives. The closest New Era Trek ever got to that was ... (kicking the rust off my gray-matter) ... an episode about "warp pollution", but even that was ostensibly ham-fisted.
I think we're living in a great era of sociopathic moral/market corruption, and all the market tweaked drama you see on TV, in the movies, read in books, all falls into that zeitgeist.
The 80's, 90's and 2000's have been marked by a consistent move away from morality plays. (Going into all of the reasons why violates board rules. It's not just the end of the TV censors.)
The 1920's to 1940's saw a similar trend in literature, followed by a societal backlash against such in the late 40's and the 50's, and then a counter-revolution in the 60's and early 70's.
It's cyclical. I'll be happy when the current trend towards shades of gray and moral relativism fades. I miss my morality plays.
Which is what my stuff is all about.
Which is why I truly dislike Star Trek in all its recent forms, even claims to harken back to "classic Trek": Reason; because in Classic Trek, the characters wouldn't squabble over whose psychological genitalia is larger than the other guy's (sentient, sophont ... whatever Trek-geek-speak term you want to use).
When I cracked open one of the new market-driven "let's turn back the clock to classic trek" books, and I think it may have been a Vanguard book, I was pretty repelled by, again, market tailored "literature". The prose reads well, in fact far superior to what I could write in terms of combining words, but the story is vapid to the core.
One of the great stunts that Roddenberry pulled off was to take some real world issues and draw parallels to men's personal lives. The closest New Era Trek ever got to that was ... (kicking the rust off my gray-matter) ... an episode about "warp pollution", but even that was ostensibly ham-fisted.
I think we're living in a great era of sociopathic moral/market corruption, and all the market tweaked drama you see on TV, in the movies, read in books, all falls into that zeitgeist.
Blue Ghost
February 1st, 2010, 07:00 PM
It's not just Trek; much of the 60's & 70's TV can bee seen as a series of morality plays: Trek, Bonanza, every cop show of the era, even up to Buck Rogers and (original) Battlestar Galactica.
The 80's, 90's and 2000's have been marked by a consistent move away from morality plays. (Going into all of the reasons why violates board rules. It's not just the end of the TV censors.)
The 1920's to 1940's saw a similar trend in literature, followed by a societal backlash against such in the late 40's and the 50's, and then a counter-revolution in the 60's and early 70's.
It's cyclical. I'll be happy when the current trend towards shades of gray and moral relativism fades. I miss my morality plays.
[RANT MODE ON]
Just to make myself feel better, and hammer home a point, because I think your's is worth reiterating, we're seeing stuff on television today that would NEVER have been considered for production, much less a concept, being aired and posted on Youtube. I'm not talking about so-called "adult" entertainment, but stuff that's pure pornographic-sensationalism minus the sex. Heck, if it had sex in it that might make it interesting.
The net, ideally, as envisioned by those designing it in the 20s and 30s, was meant to be a commercial endeavor to be sure, but also meant to be a conduit of information. Which it is. Regrettably those who have the most free time, punks, now dictate that which gets translated into entertainment.
Think about all the raunchy jokes and ideas you and your friends had when you were school boys. That sensibility used to be truncated about mid high-school, because you were expected to grow up. Now it's considered to be mainstream and "cool" to have degraded tastes and moral relativism.
Call me a prude, old fashioned, an idiot, moron, "paranoid", whatever, but I quit reading mainstream books and watching mainstream TV in the early 90s because of the shift in market focus. Blue humor's always been around, even on broadcast, but even the blue-humor of pre 90s television was in far better taste than today's. Not to sound too glib, but the adult humor was, well, more adult.
Today the entire focus of the internet, to me at least, seems to be what we in middle school called a giant "slam book". Broadcast news is sensationalized, online news, to me at least, reads very simply and doesn't give any kind of in depth analysis. That, and the headline news is usually tabloid news.
Again, the sense of right and wrong is completely lost. I don't think society is going to crumble. Au contraire, it'll flourish as always, but will be all but unbearable for those of us with a sense of purpose.
So it is that I end this rant.
*steps off soapbox, calls for the crier to summon Doctor Franklin from Liberty Hall*.
[RANT MODE OFF]
p.s. truth of the matter is that mainstream entertainment is now on a pay-per-view basis, so us poor folks get stuck with ghetto-television.
The 80's, 90's and 2000's have been marked by a consistent move away from morality plays. (Going into all of the reasons why violates board rules. It's not just the end of the TV censors.)
The 1920's to 1940's saw a similar trend in literature, followed by a societal backlash against such in the late 40's and the 50's, and then a counter-revolution in the 60's and early 70's.
It's cyclical. I'll be happy when the current trend towards shades of gray and moral relativism fades. I miss my morality plays.
[RANT MODE ON]
Just to make myself feel better, and hammer home a point, because I think your's is worth reiterating, we're seeing stuff on television today that would NEVER have been considered for production, much less a concept, being aired and posted on Youtube. I'm not talking about so-called "adult" entertainment, but stuff that's pure pornographic-sensationalism minus the sex. Heck, if it had sex in it that might make it interesting.
The net, ideally, as envisioned by those designing it in the 20s and 30s, was meant to be a commercial endeavor to be sure, but also meant to be a conduit of information. Which it is. Regrettably those who have the most free time, punks, now dictate that which gets translated into entertainment.
Think about all the raunchy jokes and ideas you and your friends had when you were school boys. That sensibility used to be truncated about mid high-school, because you were expected to grow up. Now it's considered to be mainstream and "cool" to have degraded tastes and moral relativism.
Call me a prude, old fashioned, an idiot, moron, "paranoid", whatever, but I quit reading mainstream books and watching mainstream TV in the early 90s because of the shift in market focus. Blue humor's always been around, even on broadcast, but even the blue-humor of pre 90s television was in far better taste than today's. Not to sound too glib, but the adult humor was, well, more adult.
Today the entire focus of the internet, to me at least, seems to be what we in middle school called a giant "slam book". Broadcast news is sensationalized, online news, to me at least, reads very simply and doesn't give any kind of in depth analysis. That, and the headline news is usually tabloid news.
Again, the sense of right and wrong is completely lost. I don't think society is going to crumble. Au contraire, it'll flourish as always, but will be all but unbearable for those of us with a sense of purpose.
So it is that I end this rant.
*steps off soapbox, calls for the crier to summon Doctor Franklin from Liberty Hall*.
[RANT MODE OFF]
p.s. truth of the matter is that mainstream entertainment is now on a pay-per-view basis, so us poor folks get stuck with ghetto-television.
spinwardpirate
February 2nd, 2010, 02:15 PM
Where is the "Like" button on this thing?
Recently the missus and I started watching the old Dick Van Dyke show with the kids, and I am surprised at how refreshing it is. A civilized show, for a more civilized age.
Recently the missus and I started watching the old Dick Van Dyke show with the kids, and I am surprised at how refreshing it is. A civilized show, for a more civilized age.
saundby
February 4th, 2010, 12:29 AM
What surprises me is how sophisticated even the "trash" shows of the past look compared to current content.
I know it's not just me, and not just because my own kids agree with me. When friends of theirs raised in more conventional households come over, watch Beverley Hillbillies with us, then go on for half an hour about the plot twists and interesting ideas raised in the show compared to the predictability of present shows, it begins to seem to mean something.
Back to my plate of mashed potatoes, now...
I know it's not just me, and not just because my own kids agree with me. When friends of theirs raised in more conventional households come over, watch Beverley Hillbillies with us, then go on for half an hour about the plot twists and interesting ideas raised in the show compared to the predictability of present shows, it begins to seem to mean something.
Back to my plate of mashed potatoes, now...
Dragoner
February 4th, 2010, 11:30 AM
It's not just Trek; much of the 60's & 70's TV can bee seen as a series of morality plays: Trek, Bonanza, every cop show of the era, even up to Buck Rogers and (original) Battlestar Galactica.
The 80's, 90's and 2000's have been marked by a consistent move away from morality plays. (Going into all of the reasons why violates board rules. It's not just the end of the TV censors.)
The 1920's to 1940's saw a similar trend in literature, followed by a societal backlash against such in the late 40's and the 50's, and then a counter-revolution in the 60's and early 70's.
It's cyclical. I'll be happy when the current trend towards shades of gray and moral relativism fades. I miss my morality plays.
Though if you don't see what you want, then write it. How open do you think MWM would be to licensing Traveller for television? It would make a great 3D program, the back story is already well developed and the new networks are putting out calls for new material. I have a contact there with one of the networks, though something has to be presentable first. Everyone bemoans commercialism, but we are a market driven society, hollywood is just a part of that, think of the movie "Local Hero". Selling Traveller is also making Traveller live.
The 80's, 90's and 2000's have been marked by a consistent move away from morality plays. (Going into all of the reasons why violates board rules. It's not just the end of the TV censors.)
The 1920's to 1940's saw a similar trend in literature, followed by a societal backlash against such in the late 40's and the 50's, and then a counter-revolution in the 60's and early 70's.
It's cyclical. I'll be happy when the current trend towards shades of gray and moral relativism fades. I miss my morality plays.
Though if you don't see what you want, then write it. How open do you think MWM would be to licensing Traveller for television? It would make a great 3D program, the back story is already well developed and the new networks are putting out calls for new material. I have a contact there with one of the networks, though something has to be presentable first. Everyone bemoans commercialism, but we are a market driven society, hollywood is just a part of that, think of the movie "Local Hero". Selling Traveller is also making Traveller live.
Blue Ghost
February 4th, 2010, 01:17 PM
I don't bemoan commercialism. I bemoan predatory marketing with mercenary attitude. More later... lunch break is over.
*EDIT* Didn't one of the Imperium game people make the same claim and try to sell a Traveller movie and/or TV series?
Truth be told I'm wondering if morality plays are marketable. My most vivid magazine reading experiences was some ten to fifteen years ago about Ultima Online, and the quest to kill Lord British. Apparently the Ultima online developers tried to put in some incentives and safeguards against improper or "non-heroic" conduct in their game world, but the whole thing didn't take. What they discovered was that people in the online world really didn't care about right or wrong. Makes sense, because it is after all a game environment. But I'm wondering if that doesn't translate to TV and movies. I like to think not, but I wonder.
Truth is, I don't care, because I know what I like, and moral issues are important to me on all scales. "Dancing with the Stars", "The Biggest Loser", "America's Got Talent" or "Survivor" or "Big Brother" (is that even still on), none of this BS programming is worth the digital storage space it's on, but people love it. Voting someone off an island in a mock simulation because you don't like them as entertainment? Wow. Certainly not of any moral caliber.
Turning back the clock, you can say what you wants about the Hay's office (of which there is ample material) when it was enforcing its code back in the 50s, but man, these days, what's next in terms of lowering the bar for entertainment? Rhetorical question, because we have Youtube to cater to those people.
Anyway, enough ramblings here.
*EDIT* Didn't one of the Imperium game people make the same claim and try to sell a Traveller movie and/or TV series?
Truth be told I'm wondering if morality plays are marketable. My most vivid magazine reading experiences was some ten to fifteen years ago about Ultima Online, and the quest to kill Lord British. Apparently the Ultima online developers tried to put in some incentives and safeguards against improper or "non-heroic" conduct in their game world, but the whole thing didn't take. What they discovered was that people in the online world really didn't care about right or wrong. Makes sense, because it is after all a game environment. But I'm wondering if that doesn't translate to TV and movies. I like to think not, but I wonder.
Truth is, I don't care, because I know what I like, and moral issues are important to me on all scales. "Dancing with the Stars", "The Biggest Loser", "America's Got Talent" or "Survivor" or "Big Brother" (is that even still on), none of this BS programming is worth the digital storage space it's on, but people love it. Voting someone off an island in a mock simulation because you don't like them as entertainment? Wow. Certainly not of any moral caliber.
Turning back the clock, you can say what you wants about the Hay's office (of which there is ample material) when it was enforcing its code back in the 50s, but man, these days, what's next in terms of lowering the bar for entertainment? Rhetorical question, because we have Youtube to cater to those people.
Anyway, enough ramblings here.
Daneel Olivaw
February 5th, 2010, 01:46 PM
When friends of theirs raised in more conventional households come over, watch Beverley Hillbillies with us, then go on for half an hour about the plot twists and interesting ideas raised in the show compared to the predictability of present shows, it begins to seem to mean something.
I get your point, but... Beverley Hillbillies?
:oo:
I get your point, but... Beverley Hillbillies?
:oo:
Blue Ghost
February 5th, 2010, 04:47 PM
I get your point, but... Beverley Hillbillies?
:oo:
Are you sure it wasn't "The Man from U.N.C.L.E" or something else? I'm with Daneel. I mean, Granny, Ellie Mae, Jethro and Pa Clampett involved in plot twists? Come on. :D
:oo:
Are you sure it wasn't "The Man from U.N.C.L.E" or something else? I'm with Daneel. I mean, Granny, Ellie Mae, Jethro and Pa Clampett involved in plot twists? Come on. :D
rancke
February 5th, 2010, 05:39 PM
...these days, what's next in terms of lowering the bar for entertainment? Rhetorical question, because we have Youtube to cater to those people.
Some years ago the producers of the Danish version of "Survivor" made a game show based on the choosing of that year's contestants. I thought to myself that that was the absolute nadir possible in inane entertainment , until half a year later they proved me wrong by broadcasting "The making of the game show to choose Survivor contestants"!!!
No, I didn't actually watch it. For all I know it was a masterly tour de force.
But I doubt it.
Hans
Some years ago the producers of the Danish version of "Survivor" made a game show based on the choosing of that year's contestants. I thought to myself that that was the absolute nadir possible in inane entertainment , until half a year later they proved me wrong by broadcasting "The making of the game show to choose Survivor contestants"!!!
No, I didn't actually watch it. For all I know it was a masterly tour de force.
But I doubt it.
Hans
Blue Ghost
February 6th, 2010, 02:57 AM
To get back on topic.
I was befriended by a purported "Trek" fan who, again, purportedly had affection for "TOS" Trek. He was high energy, pretty clever, well read, a respectable thespian, severely overweight, ugly, a much better SFB player than me, but, most importantly of all, he failed to understand the true mainline themes coursing through that 1960's television show.
He was very much into the drama, the emotional spectacle and so forth. He had action figures, models, Trek-this, Trek-that literally littered all over his house. But for all his alleged fandomness, and his love of mimicking various things Trek, he failed to grasp a lot of the full fledged themes and allegories of those stories.
Not to be too high-faulting' about it, but imagine reading Kane and Able and really getting into the drama between the two brothers, but completely missing the message of the story. Or cracking open a Shakespeare play, say Hamlet, and falling in love with the emotional drama, but completely ignoring the whole "ghost seeking revenge through his son" motif, or not even getting that at all.
I think there's a lot of puffery and emotional fluff and added emotional porn to the new stories than there ever is any substance.... ahhh... where am I going with this... Jesus, sorry folks, I've been up at 4AM all this week and last week, and have been going to bed at 10PM, so I'm a bit off, tired, and will finish this up later on tomorrow :)
Gnight.
*EDIT; a few hours of sleep later...*
There's a lot of good reading lit out there on the market, but the main themes coursing through those stories are not the stories that I and my parents grew up with. To get back to "Hamlet", it's more than just a simple revenge play, it's a play about one man's version of right and wrong verse everyone else's, and since it is a tragedy there's the whole "violence begets violence" intent melding with the grapple between right and wrong.
To end this tirade, "they just don't make 'em like they used to". Trek included.
And with that, I think I'll sign off on this subject. Thanks for reading. :)
I was befriended by a purported "Trek" fan who, again, purportedly had affection for "TOS" Trek. He was high energy, pretty clever, well read, a respectable thespian, severely overweight, ugly, a much better SFB player than me, but, most importantly of all, he failed to understand the true mainline themes coursing through that 1960's television show.
He was very much into the drama, the emotional spectacle and so forth. He had action figures, models, Trek-this, Trek-that literally littered all over his house. But for all his alleged fandomness, and his love of mimicking various things Trek, he failed to grasp a lot of the full fledged themes and allegories of those stories.
Not to be too high-faulting' about it, but imagine reading Kane and Able and really getting into the drama between the two brothers, but completely missing the message of the story. Or cracking open a Shakespeare play, say Hamlet, and falling in love with the emotional drama, but completely ignoring the whole "ghost seeking revenge through his son" motif, or not even getting that at all.
I think there's a lot of puffery and emotional fluff and added emotional porn to the new stories than there ever is any substance.... ahhh... where am I going with this... Jesus, sorry folks, I've been up at 4AM all this week and last week, and have been going to bed at 10PM, so I'm a bit off, tired, and will finish this up later on tomorrow :)
Gnight.
*EDIT; a few hours of sleep later...*
There's a lot of good reading lit out there on the market, but the main themes coursing through those stories are not the stories that I and my parents grew up with. To get back to "Hamlet", it's more than just a simple revenge play, it's a play about one man's version of right and wrong verse everyone else's, and since it is a tragedy there's the whole "violence begets violence" intent melding with the grapple between right and wrong.
To end this tirade, "they just don't make 'em like they used to". Trek included.
And with that, I think I'll sign off on this subject. Thanks for reading. :)
stofsk
February 18th, 2010, 09:24 PM
Based on your recommendation SuppFour, I have acquired four out of the five books: Harbinger, Summon the Thunder, Open Secrets and Precipice. Couldn't find Reap the Whirlwind in the bookstores I hit up.
Read some of Harbinger today actually. Seems interesting enough. I have a fondness for TOS over all of Trek, and love any quality writing set in that time. (whereas TNG+ gets a mighty 'meh' from me, although I always wanted to give Peter David's personal series a good try, but it seems to be something that's grown so big it would be difficult to jump into it from the beginning as a lot of them aren't even on the shelves anymore)
Read some of Harbinger today actually. Seems interesting enough. I have a fondness for TOS over all of Trek, and love any quality writing set in that time. (whereas TNG+ gets a mighty 'meh' from me, although I always wanted to give Peter David's personal series a good try, but it seems to be something that's grown so big it would be difficult to jump into it from the beginning as a lot of them aren't even on the shelves anymore)
stofsk
March 23rd, 2010, 09:40 PM
So I've read Harbinger, Summon the Thunder, Reap the Whirlwind, and I'm also half way through Open Secrets. So far this series has been extremely interesting.
Supplement Four
March 24th, 2010, 01:54 AM
I love the way book one ends. We haven't seen that kind of Trek since Kirk & Co.
"Here we come."
Love that line.
"Here we come."
Love that line.
Commander Truestar
March 24th, 2010, 03:27 AM
Has anyone noted that we now have, in its first test flights, a spacecraft named "Enterprise"?
The VSS Enterprise underwent its first "Captured Carry" flight tests yesterday(or was it two days ago...working nights is having an effect)
Marc
The VSS Enterprise underwent its first "Captured Carry" flight tests yesterday(or was it two days ago...working nights is having an effect)
Marc
aramis
March 24th, 2010, 04:23 AM
Yep. And it's the only hope, now that NASA's capitulated on the shutdown of manned spaceflight ops. Further despondence sayeth not.
Supplement Four
May 6th, 2010, 06:35 PM
The next Vanguard book has been announced. This one is an anthology of stories featuring the space station. It's due out in 2011.
Wow...just saying "twenty eleven" sounds wierd. It still sounds "scifi" to me.
Wow...just saying "twenty eleven" sounds wierd. It still sounds "scifi" to me.
Sturn
May 7th, 2010, 12:20 AM
Wow...just saying "twenty eleven" sounds wierd. It still sounds "scifi" to me.
I wonder how many years it will take before we can get away with not using the "20". A.i. before the 21st Century, you might commonly have said, "in '89" instead of "in 1989".
I wonder how many years it will take before we can get away with not using the "20". A.i. before the 21st Century, you might commonly have said, "in '89" instead of "in 1989".
Supplement Four
May 21st, 2013, 05:31 PM
A new ship was created for the Vanguard series.
Here is the Archer class scout: USS Sagitarius assigned to Starbase 47. (http://i.imgur.com/QI40n.png)
And, here's an excellent profile shot: USS Sagitarius, dirtside (http://www.ptrope.com/gedwards/images/Archer/FINAL010.jpg).
Here is the Archer class scout: USS Sagitarius assigned to Starbase 47. (http://i.imgur.com/QI40n.png)
And, here's an excellent profile shot: USS Sagitarius, dirtside (http://www.ptrope.com/gedwards/images/Archer/FINAL010.jpg).
saundby
May 26th, 2013, 04:02 AM
Yep. And it's the only hope, now that NASA's capitulated on the shutdown of manned spaceflight ops. Further despondence sayeth not.
Virgin's Enterprise, the only hope?
We've got Dream Chaser, CST-100, Dragon and Orion. There may still be surprises with the Liberty II as well. This is not the time to be despondent. :)
Virgin's Enterprise, the only hope?
We've got Dream Chaser, CST-100, Dragon and Orion. There may still be surprises with the Liberty II as well. This is not the time to be despondent. :)
aramis
May 26th, 2013, 07:20 AM
Virgin's Enterprise, the only hope?
We've got Dream Chaser, CST-100, Dragon and Orion. There may still be surprises with the Liberty II as well. This is not the time to be despondent. :)
At the time, Dragon was not yet on NASA's radar, and NASA was being seriously budget nerfed. NASA has come around, at least in part. Dragon Cargo is flying, and Dragon Manned is in testing. Dragon Manned still might not make the NASA grade.
We've got Dream Chaser, CST-100, Dragon and Orion. There may still be surprises with the Liberty II as well. This is not the time to be despondent. :)
At the time, Dragon was not yet on NASA's radar, and NASA was being seriously budget nerfed. NASA has come around, at least in part. Dragon Cargo is flying, and Dragon Manned is in testing. Dragon Manned still might not make the NASA grade.
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