Gatsby
August 7th, 2001, 03:11 PM
I am trying to give some newbies (maybe, hereafter referred to as Landscapers? http://www.farfuture.net/ixs/smile.gif ) some knowledge of Traveller's roots. They don't quite get it, yet.
It is my belief that the much beloved game, Traveller, grew out of a love for the works of many authors and influences. WE loved Traveller because it was 'in' with the stories we loved. You could read and then play! It was 'a game for science fiction fans' not 'a Sci-Fi game for roleplayers'.
Is that confusing?
You know, with classic D&D you can say - read Lord of the Rings, Elric, Conan, Fafhred and the Grey Mouser. That's some of what that game meant.
So what did Miller et al have on their bookshleves when they were thinking of slapping some rules together?
Note: this isn't a question of what is good or bad in books or a 'favourites list'...it is what were THEY reading when the LBBs were coming out...what influenced the shaping of the Classic Traveller?
A list like that would help get the Landscapers into it....and give them some good books to read, too!
Some guesses:
Foundation series by Asimov for it's Imperium.
Slippery Jim DiGriz series by Harrison for Gauss Guns and Special Agents
Laumer's Retief series for Diplomats
Niven's Known Space and Ringworld for Scouts? Definately for Scientists
Lensman Series by Smith
Starship Troopers by Heinlein and, Maybe, Hammer's Slammers for Mercenaries.
I,Robot for Robots.
Yes, like D&D, Traveller was an Amalgam of type, and THAT's why we loved it.
....Now, back to my FIRST time through the Foundation series when I am not looking over the deck plans of a Sloan class Fleet Escort.
....I am back and I am happy.
....Wonder if my 4 yr old and 2 yr. old boys are too young for H.G Wells and Asimov? Maybe Clarke...yeah Rama for bed-time stories...I'll bide my time...
Gats'
It is my belief that the much beloved game, Traveller, grew out of a love for the works of many authors and influences. WE loved Traveller because it was 'in' with the stories we loved. You could read and then play! It was 'a game for science fiction fans' not 'a Sci-Fi game for roleplayers'.
Is that confusing?
You know, with classic D&D you can say - read Lord of the Rings, Elric, Conan, Fafhred and the Grey Mouser. That's some of what that game meant.
So what did Miller et al have on their bookshleves when they were thinking of slapping some rules together?
Note: this isn't a question of what is good or bad in books or a 'favourites list'...it is what were THEY reading when the LBBs were coming out...what influenced the shaping of the Classic Traveller?
A list like that would help get the Landscapers into it....and give them some good books to read, too!
Some guesses:
Foundation series by Asimov for it's Imperium.
Slippery Jim DiGriz series by Harrison for Gauss Guns and Special Agents
Laumer's Retief series for Diplomats
Niven's Known Space and Ringworld for Scouts? Definately for Scientists
Lensman Series by Smith
Starship Troopers by Heinlein and, Maybe, Hammer's Slammers for Mercenaries.
I,Robot for Robots.
Yes, like D&D, Traveller was an Amalgam of type, and THAT's why we loved it.
....Now, back to my FIRST time through the Foundation series when I am not looking over the deck plans of a Sloan class Fleet Escort.
....I am back and I am happy.
....Wonder if my 4 yr old and 2 yr. old boys are too young for H.G Wells and Asimov? Maybe Clarke...yeah Rama for bed-time stories...I'll bide my time...
Gats'
mjwest
August 7th, 2001, 04:03 PM
In Supp 4 there is a small list of characters from fiction "translated" into Traveller. It also mentions some that were listed in Supp 1.
One could easily surmise that these stories were a good foundation for the GDW staff to draw from.
These listed are:
Star Wars, by George Lucas
The Stainless Steel Rat; Deathworld Trilogy, by Harry Harrison
Sword and Sceptre; The Mercenary, by Jerry Pournelle
Sector General series, by James White
Retief series, by Keith Laumer
Star Trek (!)
The Stars, Like Dust, by Isaac Asimov
John Carter of Mars series, by ER Burrough
Lensman series, by EE Smith
Dumarest Saga, by EC Tubb
At the Core and Other Stories of Known Space, by Larry Niven
Starwell; The Thurb Revolution, by Alexei Panshin
Flandry series, by Poul Anderson
Demon Prince series, by Jack Vance
The Stars, My Destination, by Alfred Bester
One could easily surmise that these stories were a good foundation for the GDW staff to draw from.
These listed are:
Star Wars, by George Lucas
The Stainless Steel Rat; Deathworld Trilogy, by Harry Harrison
Sword and Sceptre; The Mercenary, by Jerry Pournelle
Sector General series, by James White
Retief series, by Keith Laumer
Star Trek (!)
The Stars, Like Dust, by Isaac Asimov
John Carter of Mars series, by ER Burrough
Lensman series, by EE Smith
Dumarest Saga, by EC Tubb
At the Core and Other Stories of Known Space, by Larry Niven
Starwell; The Thurb Revolution, by Alexei Panshin
Flandry series, by Poul Anderson
Demon Prince series, by Jack Vance
The Stars, My Destination, by Alfred Bester
FlightCommanderSolitude
August 7th, 2001, 04:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gatsby:
So what did Miller et al have on their bookshleves when they were thinking of slapping some rules together?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let's not forget Frank Herbert's Dune series.
I find the political flavor and human-centered-ness of Herbert's Imperium to be amenable to the OTU.
Also, did anyone catch the reference (in Twilight's Peak, I think) to a desert planet where they harvest spice? http://www.farfuture.net/ixs/smile.gif
-FCS
So what did Miller et al have on their bookshleves when they were thinking of slapping some rules together?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let's not forget Frank Herbert's Dune series.
I find the political flavor and human-centered-ness of Herbert's Imperium to be amenable to the OTU.
Also, did anyone catch the reference (in Twilight's Peak, I think) to a desert planet where they harvest spice? http://www.farfuture.net/ixs/smile.gif
-FCS
T. Foster
August 7th, 2001, 04:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mjwest:
Star Wars, by George Lucas
The Stainless Steel Rat; Deathworld Trilogy, by Harry Harrison
Sword and Sceptre; The Mercenary, by Jerry Pournelle
Sector General series, by James White
Retief series, by Keith Laumer
Star Trek (!)
The Stars, Like Dust, by Isaac Asimov
John Carter of Mars series, by ER Burrough
Lensman series, by EE Smith
Dumarest Saga, by EC Tubb
At the Core and Other Stories of Known Space, by Larry Niven
Starwell; The Thurb Revolution, by Alexei Panshin
Flandry series, by Poul Anderson
Demon Prince series, by Jack Vance
The Stars, My Destination, by Alfred Bester<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Others with no character-stats given, but just as influential:
*Foundation Trilogy, Robot series, by Isaac Asimov
*Star Viking, Imperium, et al., by H. Beam Piper
*Dune (first book, at least), by Frank Herbert
*Starship Troopers, by Robert Heinlein
*Polesoltechnic League series, by Anderson (R.I.P.)
*Arthur C. Clarke (actually, I can't trace much specific influence from any of the Clarke books I've read, but MWM et al. always cited him as influential nonetheless)
*Free Trader series, by Andre Norton (?, I haven't read any of these, but people always cite them, and the name certainly fits)
*Roman History
*Miniatures and wargames, Ancient thru Modern
The MOST influential (of those I've read) seem to be Asimov, Anderson, Piper, Tubb, and Heinlein; they are as close to the feel of Traveller as Howard, Leiber, Burroughs, de Camp & Pratt, and Vance are to D&D.
Star Wars, by George Lucas
The Stainless Steel Rat; Deathworld Trilogy, by Harry Harrison
Sword and Sceptre; The Mercenary, by Jerry Pournelle
Sector General series, by James White
Retief series, by Keith Laumer
Star Trek (!)
The Stars, Like Dust, by Isaac Asimov
John Carter of Mars series, by ER Burrough
Lensman series, by EE Smith
Dumarest Saga, by EC Tubb
At the Core and Other Stories of Known Space, by Larry Niven
Starwell; The Thurb Revolution, by Alexei Panshin
Flandry series, by Poul Anderson
Demon Prince series, by Jack Vance
The Stars, My Destination, by Alfred Bester<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Others with no character-stats given, but just as influential:
*Foundation Trilogy, Robot series, by Isaac Asimov
*Star Viking, Imperium, et al., by H. Beam Piper
*Dune (first book, at least), by Frank Herbert
*Starship Troopers, by Robert Heinlein
*Polesoltechnic League series, by Anderson (R.I.P.)
*Arthur C. Clarke (actually, I can't trace much specific influence from any of the Clarke books I've read, but MWM et al. always cited him as influential nonetheless)
*Free Trader series, by Andre Norton (?, I haven't read any of these, but people always cite them, and the name certainly fits)
*Roman History
*Miniatures and wargames, Ancient thru Modern
The MOST influential (of those I've read) seem to be Asimov, Anderson, Piper, Tubb, and Heinlein; they are as close to the feel of Traveller as Howard, Leiber, Burroughs, de Camp & Pratt, and Vance are to D&D.
GypsyComet
August 7th, 2001, 07:21 PM
My impression has been that the Traveller Free Trader model is about 50-50 Anderson's Falkayn books (the "Polesothechnic League" cycle, also known for Nicholas van Rijn) and Norton's Solar Queen books (labeled above as her "Free Trader" books). Also the whole "taped Jump course" thing (an early Traveller-ism that seems to have faded after the Imperium took on a life of its own...) is Norton, and is found in any of her SF that involves a ship's bridge...
I could probably come up with a specific reading list for Norton, but those books are all at my parent's place right now, so I'd have to get back to you...
A reading list for Anderson should also include the later "Psychotechnic League" stories, most easily accessed via the three or four volume collected stories of a decade ago. I'd also add "Tales of the Flying Mountains" to the list. His Maori stories are also full of ideas for Scout infiltrations...
I could go on, but it starts turning into a favorite books thread if I do...
[This message has been edited by GypsyComet (edited 07 August 2001).]
I could probably come up with a specific reading list for Norton, but those books are all at my parent's place right now, so I'd have to get back to you...
A reading list for Anderson should also include the later "Psychotechnic League" stories, most easily accessed via the three or four volume collected stories of a decade ago. I'd also add "Tales of the Flying Mountains" to the list. His Maori stories are also full of ideas for Scout infiltrations...
I could go on, but it starts turning into a favorite books thread if I do...
[This message has been edited by GypsyComet (edited 07 August 2001).]
Uncle Bob
August 8th, 2001, 02:21 PM
Dune keeps getting mentioned, and it certainly was one of the widest read and most influential books of the '60s, but I don't see much influence in Traveller. Yeah, there was an Imperial government, but it seems to me the the Traveller Imperium has more in common with the Imperiums of Anderson or Asimov than Herbert.
Herbert's politics, government, and society are dominated by monolithic great houses and guilds, while the Imperium and most Traveller settings give more scope to the individual. Space travel is tightly controlled and depends on huge ships, unlike the accessible technology of Traveller. Also the mystic and religious elements have no parallel in Traveller (although I suppose they could be developed from Psionics, with difficulty). And finally, the epic scope seems incompatable with Traveller adventures.
Other authors that have more commonality of mood and setting are James Schmitz (esp Three Witches of Karres, although I can find no direct influence) and H. Beam Piper (the Sword Worlds are CT and elements of Space Viking turn up in TNE.)
[This message has been edited by Uncle Bob (edited 08 August 2001).]
Herbert's politics, government, and society are dominated by monolithic great houses and guilds, while the Imperium and most Traveller settings give more scope to the individual. Space travel is tightly controlled and depends on huge ships, unlike the accessible technology of Traveller. Also the mystic and religious elements have no parallel in Traveller (although I suppose they could be developed from Psionics, with difficulty). And finally, the epic scope seems incompatable with Traveller adventures.
Other authors that have more commonality of mood and setting are James Schmitz (esp Three Witches of Karres, although I can find no direct influence) and H. Beam Piper (the Sword Worlds are CT and elements of Space Viking turn up in TNE.)
[This message has been edited by Uncle Bob (edited 08 August 2001).]
Gallowglass
August 9th, 2001, 04:10 AM
The 2300AD Director's Guide makes a distinction between Science Fantasy (e.g. Burrough's Mars), Space Opera (Star Wars) and Hard Science Fiction (Cherryh's Alliance Union books).
My impression is that Traveller-as-game was always intended to encompass all three. I have distant memories of converting both Blake's Seven and Dune tech to LBB Traveller and aticles such as Andy Slack's Backdrop of Stars certainly encouraged people to consider all sorts of books. On the other hand, Traveller-as-setting very rapidly settled into Hard SF mode. The technology tried to avoid excess technobabble and many of the supplements and adventures dwelt on the scientific plausibility of what they were saying to a much greater degree than would be required in a Space Fantasy or Space Opera setting.
My understanding has always been that the core influences on the OTU were Anderson and Piper.
My impression is that Traveller-as-game was always intended to encompass all three. I have distant memories of converting both Blake's Seven and Dune tech to LBB Traveller and aticles such as Andy Slack's Backdrop of Stars certainly encouraged people to consider all sorts of books. On the other hand, Traveller-as-setting very rapidly settled into Hard SF mode. The technology tried to avoid excess technobabble and many of the supplements and adventures dwelt on the scientific plausibility of what they were saying to a much greater degree than would be required in a Space Fantasy or Space Opera setting.
My understanding has always been that the core influences on the OTU were Anderson and Piper.
TJP
August 9th, 2001, 03:53 PM
I said this earlier in another thread, but I'll say it again -- Niven and Pournelle: The Mote in God's Eye. That must have been read by MWM. I read it after I'd been acquainted with Traveller and immediately found a lot in common in those two.
trader james
August 10th, 2001, 12:57 PM
this fellow traveller gatsby has
got it!! he has blasted it right in the head. traveller is based
on pure imagination. to exercise
your imagination you read. i am
now off duty sitting in my cabin
on the way to locust 2, reading an old copy Analog. if you want
truly outstanding traveller research or senerio material, check E-bay - go to magizines - go to sci-fi check it out - go to
pulps check it out. go to sci-fi
paperbacks check it out. stop and think about it. its a treasure trove!!! every mag and book is avaiable from the 30's to 2000 -
they all come up sooner or later!! then think how you could
"convert" stories to traveller ideas. there!!! one secret is out.
got it!! he has blasted it right in the head. traveller is based
on pure imagination. to exercise
your imagination you read. i am
now off duty sitting in my cabin
on the way to locust 2, reading an old copy Analog. if you want
truly outstanding traveller research or senerio material, check E-bay - go to magizines - go to sci-fi check it out - go to
pulps check it out. go to sci-fi
paperbacks check it out. stop and think about it. its a treasure trove!!! every mag and book is avaiable from the 30's to 2000 -
they all come up sooner or later!! then think how you could
"convert" stories to traveller ideas. there!!! one secret is out.
Capital_Q
August 22nd, 2001, 02:06 PM
I have to agree with TJP, Niven and Pournelles' Mote books are dripping with Traveller flavor. Fuedal government, humanocentric outlook, noble naval officers, merchant princes, black globe generators and more. The jump drive "science" is cool too, though not very Traveller. Basically your week is spent accelerating to jump point at a gravity well. No G-comps either.
kafka47
September 4th, 2001, 11:34 AM
For me:
Original Asimov Foundation Trilogy, after that they sort of lost their way.
The Jefferson Sywcaffer Traveller novels.
Anything by Martin Dougherty.
Some Arthur C. Clarke stuff, particularly his earlier work.
Keith brothers fiction, in their Traveller phase.
Original Asimov Foundation Trilogy, after that they sort of lost their way.
The Jefferson Sywcaffer Traveller novels.
Anything by Martin Dougherty.
Some Arthur C. Clarke stuff, particularly his earlier work.
Keith brothers fiction, in their Traveller phase.
solomani_interloper
July 2nd, 2002, 02:46 PM
The "Hammer's Slammers" stories must be in there somewhere (Mercenary Bonds) and I always thought the original "Dorsai" trilogy had a whiff of Traveller's mercenary missions.
I once had (That's "once had" as in never loan your books to post-grad students), a copy of a lecture Thomas Disch gave in which he commented on the homoerotic element of "Starship Troopers" - incredibly funny stuff
I once had (That's "once had" as in never loan your books to post-grad students), a copy of a lecture Thomas Disch gave in which he commented on the homoerotic element of "Starship Troopers" - incredibly funny stuff
Psion
July 2nd, 2002, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by TJP:
I said this earlier in another thread, but I'll say it again -- Niven and Pournelle: The Mote in God's Eye.I'll second (or third) that. The "empire navy" feel is right up the Traveller alley, and I strongly suspect that this is where the 6G limit in Traveller came from.
Other "me too's"
Ensign Flandry series, by Poul Anderson
Niven's Known Space stories
Piper's space vikings
Vance's demon princes
Foundation trilogy
Dune
I said this earlier in another thread, but I'll say it again -- Niven and Pournelle: The Mote in God's Eye.I'll second (or third) that. The "empire navy" feel is right up the Traveller alley, and I strongly suspect that this is where the 6G limit in Traveller came from.
Other "me too's"
Ensign Flandry series, by Poul Anderson
Niven's Known Space stories
Piper's space vikings
Vance's demon princes
Foundation trilogy
Dune
solomani_interloper
July 2nd, 2002, 04:10 PM
... oh and thinking about it, how about Eric Frank Russell's "Next of Kin" as a model for the single crewed Scout ship?
Nearside
July 2nd, 2002, 06:15 PM
I think, for my experiences, movies were always a stronger influence than books, though I don't want to go off topic.
How about comic books? 2000AD, for my fellow Brits, and much more recently 2001 Nights, a great serious of books that borrowed very heavily from ACC, at least as far as I could see.
I've read a lot of Asimov and Clarke, but mostly their non-fiction stuff. Clarke's essays are always excellent, and a great source of inspiration.
How about comic books? 2000AD, for my fellow Brits, and much more recently 2001 Nights, a great serious of books that borrowed very heavily from ACC, at least as far as I could see.
I've read a lot of Asimov and Clarke, but mostly their non-fiction stuff. Clarke's essays are always excellent, and a great source of inspiration.
GypsyComet
July 2nd, 2002, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by solomani_interloper:
... oh and thinking about it, how about Eric Frank Russell's "Next of Kin" as a model for the single crewed Scout ship?Possibly, though Niven's Singleships and the John Grimes books by A. Bertram Chandler did this as well.
... oh and thinking about it, how about Eric Frank Russell's "Next of Kin" as a model for the single crewed Scout ship?Possibly, though Niven's Singleships and the John Grimes books by A. Bertram Chandler did this as well.
William
July 3rd, 2002, 09:26 AM
For me, the greatest recent influence has been Bujold's Vorkosigan series.
William
William
Vargr Breath
July 3rd, 2002, 01:03 PM
Hi
Try "The Fifth Foreign Legion" books by William & Andrew Keith. They have a Traveller/2300 feel. They are older books so you will have to hunt for them.Try abebooks.com or bookfinder.com .
Try "The Fifth Foreign Legion" books by William & Andrew Keith. They have a Traveller/2300 feel. They are older books so you will have to hunt for them.Try abebooks.com or bookfinder.com .
solomani_interloper
July 3rd, 2002, 01:47 PM
... another example of single scouts has just come to mind - Poul Anderson's "Virgin Planet". I think the Eric Frank Russell novel is earlier tho.
I pilfered plots from various sources - van Vogt especially (How about "Voyage of the Space Beagle" for the original inspiration behind "Alien"?).
I work for a publisher with a pitifully small SF list, but they did an excellent history of the Foreign Legion that added extra depth to my Aurore campaign, from "Legion to me" to the idea of stands like Cameron.
I pilfered plots from various sources - van Vogt especially (How about "Voyage of the Space Beagle" for the original inspiration behind "Alien"?).
I work for a publisher with a pitifully small SF list, but they did an excellent history of the Foreign Legion that added extra depth to my Aurore campaign, from "Legion to me" to the idea of stands like Cameron.
autochthonic
July 4th, 2002, 06:21 PM
What about the opposite? How much sci-fi has been written with Traveller in mind (apart form the official series)
Artikid
July 5th, 2002, 03:35 AM
First thoughts on good reads for Traveller:
Asimov
Bester
Bujold
Herbert
Niven
Also:
Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Clans of the Alphane Moon by P.K. Dick could be a good starting point for a Psi-prison planet adventure... smile.gif
A
Asimov
Bester
Bujold
Herbert
Niven
Also:
Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Clans of the Alphane Moon by P.K. Dick could be a good starting point for a Psi-prison planet adventure... smile.gif
A
RabidVargr
July 5th, 2002, 11:06 AM
The Pride of Chanur
by C. J. Cherryh
Pretty good first contact book and the series that follows. The main characters (but one) are not human though.
RV
by C. J. Cherryh
Pretty good first contact book and the series that follows. The main characters (but one) are not human though.
RV
solomani_interloper
July 5th, 2002, 02:23 PM
We published Bujold in the UK - and I remember some of the stories in magazines - I read one, "Mirror Dance" I think, but my taste in SF ends really around about 1970. Favourite authors... Alldis, Asimov ("Naked Sun" and "Caves of Steel"), Ballard, Bester ("Fondly Fahrenheit" is a superb story), Blish, Brown, Clarke, Clement, Dick, Disch, Harrison, Harness, Kornbluth, Kuttner, Le Guin, Leiber, Miller, Pohl, Reynolds, Sheckley, Silverberg, Simak, Cordwainer Smith, Spinrad.. phew! Comprehensive list, and none of it really travellere material I suppose.
It's a recent passion and it's not SF, but I'd love to do something based on Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey & Maturin characters.
It's a recent passion and it's not SF, but I'd love to do something based on Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey & Maturin characters.
Fulacin Highport
July 6th, 2002, 12:38 PM
The Dumarest of Terra series of novels by EC Tubb (close to 30 novels!) are extreme influences on Classic Traveller; the size of the majority of the starships, High Passage, Low Passage, merc units & merc tickets, the overall 'feel' of the technology, weaponry, body armor.... I could go on & on. Marc had commented on this before (1001 Chararcters?) where a number of fictional personalities from varied sources were written up as game characters.
He had also stated that they used many, many sources when creating Traveller, not just one or two.
I've always enjoyed the novel 'Monument' by James Tiptree, Jr. -- Very Travellerish, if you prefer the non-shoot'em-up campaigns. Beware the tax lawyers! tongue.gif
He had also stated that they used many, many sources when creating Traveller, not just one or two.
I've always enjoyed the novel 'Monument' by James Tiptree, Jr. -- Very Travellerish, if you prefer the non-shoot'em-up campaigns. Beware the tax lawyers! tongue.gif
Takei
July 9th, 2002, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by Gatsby:
....Wonder if my 4 yr old and 2 yr. old boys are too young for H.G Wells and Asimov? Maybe Clarke...yeah Rama for bed-time stories...I'll bide my time...
Gats'[/QB]Well, my daughter was three and a half when I first tried her on "The Hobbit" and she loved it. It was from memory and not read straight from the book, but she prefered it to any other bedtime story for a long time. She could name all of the dwarves and the swords :)
More on topic, she likes looking at ship pictures in books and on my pc. She even asked me to print out a few of Jesse's pics for her bedroom. I had a big smile and my wife just shook her head.
....Wonder if my 4 yr old and 2 yr. old boys are too young for H.G Wells and Asimov? Maybe Clarke...yeah Rama for bed-time stories...I'll bide my time...
Gats'[/QB]Well, my daughter was three and a half when I first tried her on "The Hobbit" and she loved it. It was from memory and not read straight from the book, but she prefered it to any other bedtime story for a long time. She could name all of the dwarves and the swords :)
More on topic, she likes looking at ship pictures in books and on my pc. She even asked me to print out a few of Jesse's pics for her bedroom. I had a big smile and my wife just shook her head.
Vargas
July 9th, 2002, 10:08 AM
I haven't finished it yet but Lois McMaster Bujold's "Young Miles" has a definite Traveller feel as the plot is being established.
gardclan
July 9th, 2002, 12:05 PM
David Weber's Honor Harrington series. With the exception of the multiple hundred or so G's of accel, the books seem pretty "travellerish". Not to mention the fact that they're a good read.
Simon Jester
July 10th, 2002, 05:32 PM
A great deal of my Traveller influences came from the old master, Robert Heinlein. The ones that most readily come to mind are:
Moon is a Harsh Mistress
Citizen of the Galaxy
Podkayne of Mars
The Rolling Stones
Now that I've been reminded of these, and just how long it's been since I last read them, I must dig them out and read them again. Goodbye. :D
Simon Jester
Moon is a Harsh Mistress
Citizen of the Galaxy
Podkayne of Mars
The Rolling Stones
Now that I've been reminded of these, and just how long it's been since I last read them, I must dig them out and read them again. Goodbye. :D
Simon Jester
Takei
July 11th, 2002, 01:35 AM
I saw Minority Report a couple of days ago and noticed that it was based on short story by Philip K Dick. Does the short have the same title? If not, does anyone know what it is?
T. Foster
July 11th, 2002, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Takei:
I saw Minority Report a couple of days ago and noticed that it was based on short story by Philip K Dick. Does the short have the same title? If not, does anyone know what it is?I believe the original story is called "The Minority Report" but I may well be wrong (haven't read it). ISTR also seeing a tie-in edition at a bookstore (i.e. new reissue with Tom Cruise's face on the cover) which may be convenient for one-stop shopping, though I'm sure you could find a used copy for far cheaper with a little searching.
I saw Minority Report a couple of days ago and noticed that it was based on short story by Philip K Dick. Does the short have the same title? If not, does anyone know what it is?I believe the original story is called "The Minority Report" but I may well be wrong (haven't read it). ISTR also seeing a tie-in edition at a bookstore (i.e. new reissue with Tom Cruise's face on the cover) which may be convenient for one-stop shopping, though I'm sure you could find a used copy for far cheaper with a little searching.
Tom Schoene
July 11th, 2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by T. Foster:
I believe the original story is called "The Minority Report" but I may well be wrong (haven't read it). ISTR also seeing a tie-in edition at a bookstore (i.e. new reissue with Tom Cruise's face on the cover) which may be convenient for one-stop shopping, though I'm sure you could find a used copy for far cheaper with a little searching.[/QB]That tie-in edition for Minority Report is printed in the weirdest layout for some reason (vertical and oddly formatted) and is awfully pricy for a book with just one novella. You can find much more readable versions in the various collections of Dick's short works. I have the _Philip K. Dick Reader_, which has "The Minority Report" and a dozen or more shorter stories. Good reading, though not terribly Traveller-inspiring. You do get the sense that Dick's work was often not so much science fiction as first-person narrative of a lunatic filtered through an SF lens. (see especially "The Eyes Have It" and "The Hanging Man.")
I believe the original story is called "The Minority Report" but I may well be wrong (haven't read it). ISTR also seeing a tie-in edition at a bookstore (i.e. new reissue with Tom Cruise's face on the cover) which may be convenient for one-stop shopping, though I'm sure you could find a used copy for far cheaper with a little searching.[/QB]That tie-in edition for Minority Report is printed in the weirdest layout for some reason (vertical and oddly formatted) and is awfully pricy for a book with just one novella. You can find much more readable versions in the various collections of Dick's short works. I have the _Philip K. Dick Reader_, which has "The Minority Report" and a dozen or more shorter stories. Good reading, though not terribly Traveller-inspiring. You do get the sense that Dick's work was often not so much science fiction as first-person narrative of a lunatic filtered through an SF lens. (see especially "The Eyes Have It" and "The Hanging Man.")
kafka47
July 11th, 2002, 03:23 PM
My choices for books are:
The Swycaffer Traveller novels
Asimov, especially Foundation & Empire
Harry Harrison's Deathworld series
A.C. Clarke's SS The Sentinel (just change it to an Asteroid in the frontier)
Movies...
Solaris
Dungeons & Dragons (to introduce the idea of mixed party of adventures)
Apollo 13 (for a TL 6 civilization's return to the Stars)
Blade Runner (for a darker look at the worlds in the Core/Rim)
There are more but cannot think of them right now...
Honourable mentions would be:
Lovecraft
Tolstoy (for the 2nd Frontier War)
and many Non-Fiction titles
The Swycaffer Traveller novels
Asimov, especially Foundation & Empire
Harry Harrison's Deathworld series
A.C. Clarke's SS The Sentinel (just change it to an Asteroid in the frontier)
Movies...
Solaris
Dungeons & Dragons (to introduce the idea of mixed party of adventures)
Apollo 13 (for a TL 6 civilization's return to the Stars)
Blade Runner (for a darker look at the worlds in the Core/Rim)
There are more but cannot think of them right now...
Honourable mentions would be:
Lovecraft
Tolstoy (for the 2nd Frontier War)
and many Non-Fiction titles
samdx
July 12th, 2002, 03:11 PM
Uller Uprising by H. Beam Piper is very good.
The book is about a revolt by the natives on a colony world. It has that classic traveller feel - antigrav vehicles and starships juxtaposed with recoilless rifles.
The book is about a revolt by the natives on a colony world. It has that classic traveller feel - antigrav vehicles and starships juxtaposed with recoilless rifles.
solomani_interloper
July 12th, 2002, 06:00 PM
H Beam Piper's not so well known in the UK. I've only read "Little Fuzzy", and that was an imported Ace edition.
I started reading the "Dumarest Saga", but being an anorak I tried to buy them in order and in the same binding; I think I got up to Book Eight.
This may be laying down the gauntlet, but I don't think there are any particularly Traveller-ish Brit authors (We do like our cosy catatrophes over here). Perhaps Peter Hamilton, but I've never been comfortable with his particular brand of right-wing religosity. Bob Shaw maybe...
I started reading the "Dumarest Saga", but being an anorak I tried to buy them in order and in the same binding; I think I got up to Book Eight.
This may be laying down the gauntlet, but I don't think there are any particularly Traveller-ish Brit authors (We do like our cosy catatrophes over here). Perhaps Peter Hamilton, but I've never been comfortable with his particular brand of right-wing religosity. Bob Shaw maybe...
Knightsky
July 13th, 2002, 02:17 PM
In addition to the many already-mentioned excellent suggestions, I would add the following:
"Rite of Passage" - Alexei Panshin
'Daedalus' series - Brian Stableford
"The Disinherited" - Steve White
To get back to the original question of what primarily inspired Millar & co., if I had to narrow it down to a baker's dozen, I would guess Poul Anderson, Isaac Asimov, Gordon R. Dickson, David Drake, Harry Harrison, Robert Heinlein, Larry Niven, Andre Norton, H. Beam Piper, Jerry Pournelle, Brian Stableford, E.C. Tubb, and Jack Vance.
"Rite of Passage" - Alexei Panshin
'Daedalus' series - Brian Stableford
"The Disinherited" - Steve White
To get back to the original question of what primarily inspired Millar & co., if I had to narrow it down to a baker's dozen, I would guess Poul Anderson, Isaac Asimov, Gordon R. Dickson, David Drake, Harry Harrison, Robert Heinlein, Larry Niven, Andre Norton, H. Beam Piper, Jerry Pournelle, Brian Stableford, E.C. Tubb, and Jack Vance.
rfxn
July 14th, 2002, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Knightsky:
To get back to the original question of what primarily inspired Millar & co., if I had to narrow it down to a baker's dozen, I would guess Poul Anderson, Isaac Asimov, Gordon R. Dickson, David Drake, Harry Harrison, Robert Heinlein, Larry Niven, Andre Norton, H. Beam Piper, Jerry Pournelle, Brian Stableford, E.C. Tubb, and Jack Vance.Anyone mentioned Robert Sheckley's 1955 short story collection "Citizen In Space"? The story "Ticket to Tranai" is a tale about the misadventures of a retired bureaucrat - They even have TAS helping him out!
To get back to the original question of what primarily inspired Millar & co., if I had to narrow it down to a baker's dozen, I would guess Poul Anderson, Isaac Asimov, Gordon R. Dickson, David Drake, Harry Harrison, Robert Heinlein, Larry Niven, Andre Norton, H. Beam Piper, Jerry Pournelle, Brian Stableford, E.C. Tubb, and Jack Vance.Anyone mentioned Robert Sheckley's 1955 short story collection "Citizen In Space"? The story "Ticket to Tranai" is a tale about the misadventures of a retired bureaucrat - They even have TAS helping him out!
Douglass
July 24th, 2002, 05:10 PM
I wouldn't call Dune a heavy influence on Traveller, although it *is* strongly hinted at several times in Traveller canon.
Interestingly enough, the recent Dune prequels (by Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson) have a quite Travelleresque feel to them. Since they are set before Paul's Jihad, Imperial politics have a feudal structure *extremely* similar to that in Traveller. I recommend them as a source of inspiration to any Traveller GM, especially those whose campaigns focus on politics.
Interestingly enough, the recent Dune prequels (by Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson) have a quite Travelleresque feel to them. Since they are set before Paul's Jihad, Imperial politics have a feudal structure *extremely* similar to that in Traveller. I recommend them as a source of inspiration to any Traveller GM, especially those whose campaigns focus on politics.
GypsyComet
January 18th, 2007, 11:09 PM
Okay guys, time pump some air into this one and get it to resurface!
I could add a few new sources to this topic, but not all of them are "reading" as such...
I could add a few new sources to this topic, but not all of them are "reading" as such...
ravells
January 23rd, 2007, 11:50 AM
My choice would be a book called 'Dragon's Egg' by Robert L Forward. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dragons-Egg-Del-Rey-Impact/dp/034543529X/sr=8-2/qid=1169570819/ref=pd_ka_2/203-1197432-9587130?ie=UTF8&s=books)
Forward is a nuclear physicist (I think this, and the sequel are the only books he wrote) One of the Amazon reviews has about right when it says:
Start with a neutron star, one of the densest things known to man, send humans out to investigate it, discover life on it (under heavier gravity than you could ever imagine with lifes measured in seconds rather than years), and sit back and read what happens - I couldn't put this book down.
It's better than Isaac Asimov, Larry Niven and Arthur C. Clarke all rolled into one.
I hope that they re-release the sequel as well "Starquake".
Just a quick word of warning - this is not a new book - it was released originally 20 years ago and the sequel 15 years ago. The story doesn't date, but just check to make sure it's not already in your collection
Forward is a nuclear physicist (I think this, and the sequel are the only books he wrote) One of the Amazon reviews has about right when it says:
Start with a neutron star, one of the densest things known to man, send humans out to investigate it, discover life on it (under heavier gravity than you could ever imagine with lifes measured in seconds rather than years), and sit back and read what happens - I couldn't put this book down.
It's better than Isaac Asimov, Larry Niven and Arthur C. Clarke all rolled into one.
I hope that they re-release the sequel as well "Starquake".
Just a quick word of warning - this is not a new book - it was released originally 20 years ago and the sequel 15 years ago. The story doesn't date, but just check to make sure it's not already in your collection
Malenfant
January 23rd, 2007, 01:54 PM
Both the Forward books are pretty good, I didn't think they were particularly travelleresque though. Similar good-sf-but-not-remotely-Travellerlike are Donald Moffitt's The Genesis Quest (http://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Quest-Donald-Moffitt/dp/0743458338/ref=pd_sim_b_1/105-7209833-0280462) and Second Genesis (http://www.amazon.com/Second-Genesis-Donald-Moffitt/dp/0743458613). Again, these are at least 20 years old but have all sorts of great concepts like immortal humans recreated by aliens in another galaxy from genetic code broadcast from Earth, living tree spaceships, galactic extinction events and so on. Fun stuff. But again, not remotely Traveller smile.gif
ravells
January 23rd, 2007, 02:40 PM
Heh...I thought we were just talking about good SF.
Serves me right for not reading the thread properly!
Ravs
Serves me right for not reading the thread properly!
Ravs
Malenfant
January 23rd, 2007, 02:54 PM
Well, what really IS "Traveller-like scifi" anyway?
Bob Weaver
January 23rd, 2007, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by mjwest:
One could easily surmise that these stories were a good foundation for the GDW staff to draw from.
These listed are:
Star Wars, by George Lucas
For the sake of arguement, I say that Star Wars was NOT an influence on the development of Traveller. I have two reasons for this.
First, Star Wars and Traveller were both introduced in 1977. At the time, both projects were unknown quantities, so it is unlikely that either Miller or Lucas influenced (or were even aware of) each other.
Second, while Traveller players have ever since 1977 been shoe-horning Star Wars tech into their games, the fact is that neither mega-colossal starships nor lightsabers were included in the LBBs. Yet those two artifacts are staples of the Star Wars mythos.
It is beyond doubt that Star Wars did have some influence on Traveller after it was introduced. Bk5, it is commonly assumed, was meant in part to allow the construction of the SW-sized mega-ships. Yet the most common comparison I see of High Guard ships is the 16th-19th century "Age of Sail" paradigm.
Thanks to all who have contributed authors & titles to this list - it gives me more stuff to read! smile.gif
One could easily surmise that these stories were a good foundation for the GDW staff to draw from.
These listed are:
Star Wars, by George Lucas
For the sake of arguement, I say that Star Wars was NOT an influence on the development of Traveller. I have two reasons for this.
First, Star Wars and Traveller were both introduced in 1977. At the time, both projects were unknown quantities, so it is unlikely that either Miller or Lucas influenced (or were even aware of) each other.
Second, while Traveller players have ever since 1977 been shoe-horning Star Wars tech into their games, the fact is that neither mega-colossal starships nor lightsabers were included in the LBBs. Yet those two artifacts are staples of the Star Wars mythos.
It is beyond doubt that Star Wars did have some influence on Traveller after it was introduced. Bk5, it is commonly assumed, was meant in part to allow the construction of the SW-sized mega-ships. Yet the most common comparison I see of High Guard ships is the 16th-19th century "Age of Sail" paradigm.
Thanks to all who have contributed authors & titles to this list - it gives me more stuff to read! smile.gif
Bob Weaver
January 23rd, 2007, 04:15 PM
As a tag-on to my previous post, I think that the venerable Horatio Hornblower series by C.S. Forester should be mentioned as inspirational source material for Traveller players. HH is acknowledged to be an inspiration for the later, and well worthy Honor Harrington series.
FreeTrav
January 23rd, 2007, 06:39 PM
I'm fairly sure that Marc and Loren have discussed publicly in the past what SF was inspiration for Traveller, and when; I'd strongly urge folks to check the TML archives. That said, I'm also pretty sure that most of them have already been mentioned; just limit yourself to the most Traveller-like works that PREDATE 1977, when Traveller came out.
I'm also pretty sure that most of them were also mentioned in another thread here on CotI, "Books with that Traveller feel" (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001967). I'd certainly classify most of the works mentioned there as "required reading", even if they weren't inspiration for Traveller. graemlins/omega.gif
I'm also pretty sure that most of them were also mentioned in another thread here on CotI, "Books with that Traveller feel" (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001967). I'd certainly classify most of the works mentioned there as "required reading", even if they weren't inspiration for Traveller. graemlins/omega.gif
Malenfant
January 23rd, 2007, 06:46 PM
That's all very well for pre-1977, but what books *post*-1977 have that "Traveller feel"?
FreeTrav
January 23rd, 2007, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Malenfant:
That's all very well for pre-1977, but what books *post*-1977 have that "Traveller feel"? That's the other thread... (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001967) :D graemlins/omega.gif
That's all very well for pre-1977, but what books *post*-1977 have that "Traveller feel"? That's the other thread... (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001967) :D graemlins/omega.gif
Jeff M. Hopper
January 23rd, 2007, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by solomani_interloper:
This may be laying down the gauntlet, but I don't think there are any particularly Traveller-ish Brit authors (We do like our cosy catatrophes over here). Perhaps Peter Hamilton, but I've never been comfortable with his particular brand of right-wing religosity. Bob Shaw maybe... Actually, I believe that both James White and Arthur C. Clarke have influenced Traveller greatly. I know that the hero of James White's Sector General series has been written up as a Traveller character in the back of either 1001 Characters or Citizens of the Imperium, I can't remember which supplement it was.
This may be laying down the gauntlet, but I don't think there are any particularly Traveller-ish Brit authors (We do like our cosy catatrophes over here). Perhaps Peter Hamilton, but I've never been comfortable with his particular brand of right-wing religosity. Bob Shaw maybe... Actually, I believe that both James White and Arthur C. Clarke have influenced Traveller greatly. I know that the hero of James White's Sector General series has been written up as a Traveller character in the back of either 1001 Characters or Citizens of the Imperium, I can't remember which supplement it was.
Maladominus
January 24th, 2007, 12:03 AM
Recommended Reading:
The Josh Whedon Autobiography: "How I Used to be a Role-playing Game Nerd and Played a Game Called Traveller in the 1980s and Stole Many Ideas And Made a Popular TV Show and Movie Out Of It"
The Josh Whedon Autobiography: "How I Used to be a Role-playing Game Nerd and Played a Game Called Traveller in the 1980s and Stole Many Ideas And Made a Popular TV Show and Movie Out Of It"
rogermccarthy
January 24th, 2007, 05:30 PM
As TS Eliot put it 'When a man of genius steals, he always makes the thefts his own'.
While Whedon's hardly a genius if Firefly does owe everything to Traveller he's integrated it so well its hardly visible.
The low-medium tech weaponry for instance is mainly due to his 'Western in Space' concept - the Marines with revolvers and cutlasses of LBB 1-3 Traveller was more the result of a stunning lack of imagination amongst the original authors.
The alien-free small universe (everything takes place in one multi-star system with ships that travel at the speed of plot rather than FTL) is also conceptually about as far from Classic Traveller as you can get.
The mismatched crew of renegades and fugitives keeping one step ahead of the Alliance owes way more to Blakes 7 and Farscape (and numerous westerns) than Traveller with its implausibly benign Third imperium.
The free trader thing is indeed very Traveller but Marc et al can hardly claim to have invented it and Whedon could equally well have picked it up from Norton, Heinlein, Cherryh, Anderson or a dozen other SF authors - or for that matter from a computer game like Elite or the example of Han Solo.
I'm not a Whedon fanboy - Firefly and Serenity were both commercial flops for good reasons while Buffy series 7 and Angel series 3 were as bad as anything I've ever watched on TV - nevertheless if Firefly does indeed owe anything at all to Traveller I think Marc (and Loren etc) should be flattered rather than aggrieved.
While Whedon's hardly a genius if Firefly does owe everything to Traveller he's integrated it so well its hardly visible.
The low-medium tech weaponry for instance is mainly due to his 'Western in Space' concept - the Marines with revolvers and cutlasses of LBB 1-3 Traveller was more the result of a stunning lack of imagination amongst the original authors.
The alien-free small universe (everything takes place in one multi-star system with ships that travel at the speed of plot rather than FTL) is also conceptually about as far from Classic Traveller as you can get.
The mismatched crew of renegades and fugitives keeping one step ahead of the Alliance owes way more to Blakes 7 and Farscape (and numerous westerns) than Traveller with its implausibly benign Third imperium.
The free trader thing is indeed very Traveller but Marc et al can hardly claim to have invented it and Whedon could equally well have picked it up from Norton, Heinlein, Cherryh, Anderson or a dozen other SF authors - or for that matter from a computer game like Elite or the example of Han Solo.
I'm not a Whedon fanboy - Firefly and Serenity were both commercial flops for good reasons while Buffy series 7 and Angel series 3 were as bad as anything I've ever watched on TV - nevertheless if Firefly does indeed owe anything at all to Traveller I think Marc (and Loren etc) should be flattered rather than aggrieved.
rogermccarthy
January 24th, 2007, 06:08 PM
Re James White, while Dr Conway's UPP does indeed figure in one of the Supplements, the Sector General series is about as far from any RPG as you can get - the plot of every story is after all 'lets heal them and give them stuff'.
Consider a White character at the beginning of a typical RPG campaign 'oh dear - yet another bar-room brawl - good thing I brought my med-kit (ducks)... wonder if this pathological behaviour is socially determined or if its apparent ubiquity suggests a deeper physiological cause'
Consider a White character at the beginning of a typical RPG campaign 'oh dear - yet another bar-room brawl - good thing I brought my med-kit (ducks)... wonder if this pathological behaviour is socially determined or if its apparent ubiquity suggests a deeper physiological cause'
kaladorn
January 25th, 2007, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by alte:
Consider a White character at the beginning of a typical RPG campaign 'oh dear - yet another bar-room brawl - good thing I brought my med-kit (ducks)... wonder if this pathological behaviour is socially determined or if its apparent ubiquity suggests a deeper physiological cause' Murray Leinster wrote Med Ship (a fun read). It's protagonist runs around a large universe with lots of different planets where the main interplanetary binding is medical bureaucracy (public health) rather than any higher level government. He's part doctor, part psychologist and sociologist, part manipulator, and part capable defender.
Leinster books, downloadable, from Baen's Bar (Freebies!) (http://www.baen.com/library/mleinster.htm)
I can just envision his character talking about random brawling as a public health issue... he sounds like he'd get along well with the Sec Gen folks.
Consider a White character at the beginning of a typical RPG campaign 'oh dear - yet another bar-room brawl - good thing I brought my med-kit (ducks)... wonder if this pathological behaviour is socially determined or if its apparent ubiquity suggests a deeper physiological cause' Murray Leinster wrote Med Ship (a fun read). It's protagonist runs around a large universe with lots of different planets where the main interplanetary binding is medical bureaucracy (public health) rather than any higher level government. He's part doctor, part psychologist and sociologist, part manipulator, and part capable defender.
Leinster books, downloadable, from Baen's Bar (Freebies!) (http://www.baen.com/library/mleinster.htm)
I can just envision his character talking about random brawling as a public health issue... he sounds like he'd get along well with the Sec Gen folks.
Enoff
January 25th, 2007, 09:41 AM
Many of H.Beam Piper's books are available in ebook format on manybooks.net
The covers of the Piper books from the seventies were a big influence on my Traveller imagination
http://politedissent.com/images/jun05/space.jpg
http://www.zarthani.net/Images/cosmicco77.jpg
The covers of the Piper books from the seventies were a big influence on my Traveller imagination
http://politedissent.com/images/jun05/space.jpg
http://www.zarthani.net/Images/cosmicco77.jpg
Enoff
February 4th, 2007, 02:59 PM
2/3's through Piper's Uller Uprising, makes me wonder how influenced he was by Talbot Mundy and perhaps Kipling.
Kragan Rifles sounds a lot like Khyber Rifles
Kragan Rifles sounds a lot like Khyber Rifles
Gadrin
February 7th, 2007, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by kaladorn:
Leinster books, downloadable, from Baen's Bar (Freebies!) (http://www.baen.com/library/mleinster.htm)
verrrrry cool :cool:
I believe I read "First Contact" many years ago and had forgotten all about it.
Thanks very much for the link.
Leinster books, downloadable, from Baen's Bar (Freebies!) (http://www.baen.com/library/mleinster.htm)
verrrrry cool :cool:
I believe I read "First Contact" many years ago and had forgotten all about it.
Thanks very much for the link.
eclipse
February 12th, 2007, 05:22 PM
H. Beam Piper was a major influence on Traveller, at least IMNSHO.
You can find many of his books at Gutenberg.org (http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/p#a8301)
You can find many of his books at Gutenberg.org (http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/p#a8301)
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