tmondragon
December 17th, 2003, 12:09 AM
I notice in the Linkworlds cluster mini campaign that it states, "The Imperium claims starports as its territory. Starports sometimes have a small Imperial marine garrison, and are subject to Imperial, rather than local law. Assume a law level of 3 at a starport, and whatever the local lawlevel is at a spaceport."
Is this correct? I would think an Imperial patrolled starport would have a higher law level. Just wondering what others think.
thanks,
tmondragon
Is this correct? I would think an Imperial patrolled starport would have a higher law level. Just wondering what others think.
thanks,
tmondragon
Pagan priest
December 17th, 2003, 02:54 AM
The Imperial law level has always been rather low. As long as you do not engage in acts of piracy, or play with nuclear weapons, you are okay. Law level 3 is enough to keep people from brining out the heavy military weapons, like FGMP-15's and such.
Vargas
December 17th, 2003, 08:37 AM
Sign outside starport establishment:
"We reserve the right to refuse service to individuals and/or groups packing heat".
or
"The use of deadly counterforce is authorized".
"We reserve the right to refuse service to individuals and/or groups packing heat".
or
"The use of deadly counterforce is authorized".
Andrew Boulton
December 17th, 2003, 08:44 AM
From my game:
"Dockside is the area surrounding - and open to - the landing bays and construction areas. Law level is about 2 (no explosives or energy weapons), and security is light. If you do cause trouble, though, expect the authorities to call in the Marines."
"Dockside is the area surrounding - and open to - the landing bays and construction areas. Law level is about 2 (no explosives or energy weapons), and security is light. If you do cause trouble, though, expect the authorities to call in the Marines."
orc65
December 17th, 2003, 10:26 AM
Keep the drives running, I'll be back in aminute. :D
Ben W Bell
December 17th, 2003, 10:58 AM
This is correct, remember the Imperium doesn't like to patrol it's citizens (if indeed there can actually be something defined as an Imperial citizen). It treats starports like most of the rest of the Imperium, don't cause trouble and we won't harass you.
Jame
December 17th, 2003, 11:04 AM
This goes for Imperial ports. What about non-Imperial ports, whether independent or of another government?
Pagan priest
December 17th, 2003, 03:51 PM
IIRC there are Imperial Starports and local spaceports. The local spaceports have local law levels in effect.
kaladorn
December 17th, 2003, 09:38 PM
If you happen to subscribe to some of the variants that split out the general law level, I'd say the personal military law level is likely a 3 and heavy military maybe even a bit higher. I'm not sure there is much in the way of other restrictions (other types of law) beyond the basics required for quarantine and taxation (and they'd be heartily enforced).
Remember, just because you have a law level of 3 doesn't mean everyone is packing ARs. It is quite possible that you might not see a weapon in a law 3 starport - just because it isn't necessary and is conspicious. You might see some security with them (or stunners) and you know they have Marine reaction teams on backup. But most patrons may opt for either concealed carry or none at all.
There are many places in our societies it might be legal to carry a weapon, but no weapon is carried. Only if there is a sufficient threat climate are weapons carried (in general) and then often despite the law level.
Remember, just because you have a law level of 3 doesn't mean everyone is packing ARs. It is quite possible that you might not see a weapon in a law 3 starport - just because it isn't necessary and is conspicious. You might see some security with them (or stunners) and you know they have Marine reaction teams on backup. But most patrons may opt for either concealed carry or none at all.
There are many places in our societies it might be legal to carry a weapon, but no weapon is carried. Only if there is a sufficient threat climate are weapons carried (in general) and then often despite the law level.
jatay3
December 18th, 2003, 06:59 PM
Some weapons are ceremonial. These might be carried without sufficient threat.
parmasson
October 10th, 2005, 03:18 PM
Old thread restart . . . .
Charging . . . CLEAR! <ZAP> :eek:
Just suppose I am on Regina (LL9) and I happen to engage in some activities that were not entirely legal (heaven forbid) but necessary and I am trying to make my way back to the starport. I am carrying stuff that is legal in the starport but illegal on Regina.
If caught will the S.A. turn me over to Reginian (sp?) authorities or wave me through?
Charging . . . CLEAR! <ZAP> :eek:
Just suppose I am on Regina (LL9) and I happen to engage in some activities that were not entirely legal (heaven forbid) but necessary and I am trying to make my way back to the starport. I am carrying stuff that is legal in the starport but illegal on Regina.
If caught will the S.A. turn me over to Reginian (sp?) authorities or wave me through?
Chuck Anumia
October 10th, 2005, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Parmasson:
Old thread restart . . . .
Charging . . . CLEAR! <ZAP> :eek:
Oh No ! :eek:
Thread Necromancy Alert...Person raising 2 year old thread :eek:
Now...On to the question smile.gif
IMTU If the Starport Authorities do not get a "Hold" or "Search" message from the Local Yokals, they pass everyone with authorization through to their ships.
Trade is the life blood of the Imperium and people need to pass in and out quickly to provide more trade opportunities.
Holding people wastes time and slows trade. The only reason to check people more thuroughly is when there is a "verifyable" threat to security and/or Trade.
Old thread restart . . . .
Charging . . . CLEAR! <ZAP> :eek:
Oh No ! :eek:
Thread Necromancy Alert...Person raising 2 year old thread :eek:
Now...On to the question smile.gif
IMTU If the Starport Authorities do not get a "Hold" or "Search" message from the Local Yokals, they pass everyone with authorization through to their ships.
Trade is the life blood of the Imperium and people need to pass in and out quickly to provide more trade opportunities.
Holding people wastes time and slows trade. The only reason to check people more thuroughly is when there is a "verifyable" threat to security and/or Trade.
parmasson
October 10th, 2005, 04:49 PM
Oh No !
Thread Necromancy Alert...Person raising 2 year old thread Bawhahahahah . . .
I have a TL-7 “Search Function�
Old Topic! (http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000026)
I can dredge up the oldest topics and make them new again!
Thread Necromancy Alert...Person raising 2 year old thread Bawhahahahah . . .
I have a TL-7 “Search Function�
Old Topic! (http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000026)
I can dredge up the oldest topics and make them new again!
robject
October 10th, 2005, 06:02 PM
IMTU, the starport grounds are sort of like an Imperial embassy... sort of. If you cross the line, you have amnesty, or something like that.
Now, there's nothing to stop a world from XBoating a warrant for your arrest to bounty hunters and neighboring worlds. They just can't touch you on Imperial starports.
Of course, it is up to neighboring worlds to consider what to do about external arrest warrants... probably a very strange dance goes on here, but suffice to say that a sufficiently empowered world might seize upon just such a warrant to press the adventurers into doing business with them.
"We've got a shipment that needs to go to backwater world X. Decline delivery, and we'll have to re-evaluate your ship's spaceworthiness. Make the delivery, and we'll tell Regina that you weren't here. Fail to deliver by next month, and we'll add our own warrant to Regina's."
I suppose those things do pile up. Some players might enjoy gathering as many as possible, to force interesting confrontations. With an understanding referee, that could be pretty fun, actually.
Now, there's nothing to stop a world from XBoating a warrant for your arrest to bounty hunters and neighboring worlds. They just can't touch you on Imperial starports.
Of course, it is up to neighboring worlds to consider what to do about external arrest warrants... probably a very strange dance goes on here, but suffice to say that a sufficiently empowered world might seize upon just such a warrant to press the adventurers into doing business with them.
"We've got a shipment that needs to go to backwater world X. Decline delivery, and we'll have to re-evaluate your ship's spaceworthiness. Make the delivery, and we'll tell Regina that you weren't here. Fail to deliver by next month, and we'll add our own warrant to Regina's."
I suppose those things do pile up. Some players might enjoy gathering as many as possible, to force interesting confrontations. With an understanding referee, that could be pretty fun, actually.
Badbru
October 10th, 2005, 06:45 PM
Parmasson,
Wouldn't your answer lie more with the locals level of policing? Will they secure their side of the extrality line/fence/wall with the same vigour as the Imperial SPA?
Your question assumes the locals leave possible the ability for you to get into the starport. Is law level 9 sufficiently high IYTU for the locals to secure all entrances to the starport with Border Guards?
Would the SPA refuse entry to someone who had to shoot their way in?
Wouldn't your answer lie more with the locals level of policing? Will they secure their side of the extrality line/fence/wall with the same vigour as the Imperial SPA?
Your question assumes the locals leave possible the ability for you to get into the starport. Is law level 9 sufficiently high IYTU for the locals to secure all entrances to the starport with Border Guards?
Would the SPA refuse entry to someone who had to shoot their way in?
robject
October 10th, 2005, 07:00 PM
Interesting boundary case. If I had to referee that, I'd say "it depends".
Hyphen
October 10th, 2005, 08:13 PM
Dear Folks -
Originally posted by robject:
IMTU, the starport grounds are sort of like an Imperial embassy... sort of. If you cross the line, you have amnesty, or something like that.Like Mikhail Baryshnikov's escape to the Leningrad US Embassy in "White Nights".
However, murder is an Imperial crime as well as a crime on most planets. IMTU there is an extradition policy available so that the SPA can hand back real criminals fleeing a murder charge - but it is only used when the Starport Director allows it to be used. After all, she hardly wants criminals to use her 'port as a shield, or be forced to harbor hardened criminals - they would be a threat to the security of her own demense. On the gripping hand, persuade her you are a reasonable person who has either been framed or been forced to do certain otherwise questionable things in a bid to escape an evil regime, and the Director may be sympathetic. Hey, she may even allow you to wander freely in the 'port, and if you manage to arrange passage off-world before her deliberations end, what's that to her? graemlins/file_22.gif
Government by men, not laws, remember?
What's important is the role-playing avenues opened up by this situation - and of course it's really important to make the PC's sweat on whether they'll be allowed to leave... :D
Originally posted by robject:
IMTU, the starport grounds are sort of like an Imperial embassy... sort of. If you cross the line, you have amnesty, or something like that.Like Mikhail Baryshnikov's escape to the Leningrad US Embassy in "White Nights".
However, murder is an Imperial crime as well as a crime on most planets. IMTU there is an extradition policy available so that the SPA can hand back real criminals fleeing a murder charge - but it is only used when the Starport Director allows it to be used. After all, she hardly wants criminals to use her 'port as a shield, or be forced to harbor hardened criminals - they would be a threat to the security of her own demense. On the gripping hand, persuade her you are a reasonable person who has either been framed or been forced to do certain otherwise questionable things in a bid to escape an evil regime, and the Director may be sympathetic. Hey, she may even allow you to wander freely in the 'port, and if you manage to arrange passage off-world before her deliberations end, what's that to her? graemlins/file_22.gif
Government by men, not laws, remember?
What's important is the role-playing avenues opened up by this situation - and of course it's really important to make the PC's sweat on whether they'll be allowed to leave... :D
parmasson
October 10th, 2005, 11:58 PM
By Badbru
Wouldn't your answer lie more with the locals level of policing? Will they secure their side of the extrality line/fence/wall with the same vigour as the Imperial SPA? That depends. A soft border like the US/Canada only one checkpoint (or it was). Going into Canada face a Canadian checkpoint, coming back to the US face A US border guard. North Korea/South Korea may be a bit different.
My guess is that most planets will not put forth that much of an effort. Its expensive and the Imperium has its own people for that.
I am thinking that if you are going into a starport a basic energy weapons/radioactive materials/known biohazards scanner would sweep as you walked through. Face ID or Imperial RFID cards would exist but no passport control as we know it with somebody there asking you questions with a stamp unless you were from outside the Imperium. More like a subway/underground station security system.
Wouldn't your answer lie more with the locals level of policing? Will they secure their side of the extrality line/fence/wall with the same vigour as the Imperial SPA? That depends. A soft border like the US/Canada only one checkpoint (or it was). Going into Canada face a Canadian checkpoint, coming back to the US face A US border guard. North Korea/South Korea may be a bit different.
My guess is that most planets will not put forth that much of an effort. Its expensive and the Imperium has its own people for that.
I am thinking that if you are going into a starport a basic energy weapons/radioactive materials/known biohazards scanner would sweep as you walked through. Face ID or Imperial RFID cards would exist but no passport control as we know it with somebody there asking you questions with a stamp unless you were from outside the Imperium. More like a subway/underground station security system.
Shadowdancer
October 11th, 2005, 04:47 AM
IMTU, it depends on the local law level. If the local law level is pretty close to the Imperial starport standard of 3, then there's probably only one security station that checks sophonts coming in and out, and they are more concerned about the sophonts leaving the starport for local territory.
If the local law level is significantly higher than the Imperial level, the locals will have their own checkpoint, and they will be tough on sophonts coming and going. If you were good enough to smuggle the items in, you are also going to have to smuggle them out if you want to keep them.
If the local law level is significantly higher than the Imperial level, the locals will have their own checkpoint, and they will be tough on sophonts coming and going. If you were good enough to smuggle the items in, you are also going to have to smuggle them out if you want to keep them.
Beck's
October 11th, 2005, 08:28 AM
What about public transportation, like monorail, which has a station INSIDE the XT-line? My guess is, that, if they conduct searches at all, the Imperium will check people at the station inside the starport, probably when the passengers leave the train. The locals most likely do the same, but at the last station BEFORE the starport, checking people that want to leave the starport as well as people that want to enter it. (although they technically already have, by crossing the XT-line)
I imagine the whole thing must be lengthy process...
What about people that are rejected entry to the planet/starport? Are they arrested and escorted to the next train reentering the starport/planet?
I imagine the whole thing must be lengthy process...
What about people that are rejected entry to the planet/starport? Are they arrested and escorted to the next train reentering the starport/planet?
Tobias
October 11th, 2005, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Hyphen:
However, murder is an Imperial crime as well as a crime on most planets. IMTU there is an extradition policy available so that the SPA can hand back real criminals fleeing a murder charge - but it is only used when the Starport Director allows it to be used.I reckon it would be rather automatic for crimes that are recognized under Imperial law. The Starport would extradite provided that the culprit is tried under Imperial legal standards.
The system in the "Law in the Imperium" article in Challenge 50 establishes the categories of High Justice, Imperial Law, Recognized Law and Local Law.
Prosecution for the first two categories is conducted by Imperial authorities themselves.
For all "recognized" crimes, extradition to local authorities would be a sure thing, provided that the trial conforms to Imperial standards. Recognized offenses cover all the serious crimes such as murder, manslaughter, rape, kidnapping and grand theft.
For local offenses, including minor theft, the Starport IMTU might or might not extradite depending on the rapport and/or treaties the SPA has with the World government - and would of course have its own local laws concerning such offenses as well, should they occur on the Starport grounds.
Other cases in which the SPA might not be willing to extradite is if a possible local trial cannot be expected to conform to Imperial standards of fair trial, or if they decide to prosecute a crime which is defined both under Imperial and local laws (such as murder) in an Imperial trial.
Regards,
Tobias
However, murder is an Imperial crime as well as a crime on most planets. IMTU there is an extradition policy available so that the SPA can hand back real criminals fleeing a murder charge - but it is only used when the Starport Director allows it to be used.I reckon it would be rather automatic for crimes that are recognized under Imperial law. The Starport would extradite provided that the culprit is tried under Imperial legal standards.
The system in the "Law in the Imperium" article in Challenge 50 establishes the categories of High Justice, Imperial Law, Recognized Law and Local Law.
Prosecution for the first two categories is conducted by Imperial authorities themselves.
For all "recognized" crimes, extradition to local authorities would be a sure thing, provided that the trial conforms to Imperial standards. Recognized offenses cover all the serious crimes such as murder, manslaughter, rape, kidnapping and grand theft.
For local offenses, including minor theft, the Starport IMTU might or might not extradite depending on the rapport and/or treaties the SPA has with the World government - and would of course have its own local laws concerning such offenses as well, should they occur on the Starport grounds.
Other cases in which the SPA might not be willing to extradite is if a possible local trial cannot be expected to conform to Imperial standards of fair trial, or if they decide to prosecute a crime which is defined both under Imperial and local laws (such as murder) in an Imperial trial.
Regards,
Tobias
Badbru
October 12th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Parmasson, I'd think law level 9 on Regina would be high enough for the locals to bother. I'm thinking more like at airports, currency transfer restrictions, posession of resrticted goods, quarantine restrictions etc etc. Australias are pretty strict.
Using CT wouldn't you have to roll over 9 on 2d6 to NOT be hasseled by the locals? That's not an easy task.
Using CT wouldn't you have to roll over 9 on 2d6 to NOT be hasseled by the locals? That's not an easy task.
parmasson
October 12th, 2005, 10:18 PM
By Badbru
Using CT wouldn't you have to roll over 9 on 2d6 to NOT be hasseled by the locals? That's not an easy task. Damn good point.
Using CT wouldn't you have to roll over 9 on 2d6 to NOT be hasseled by the locals? That's not an easy task. Damn good point.
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