robject
June 19th, 2006, 04:37 PM
All I've seen is the Zaon website. I've browsed the forums but only gone far enough to see that they're hashing out similar issues in their starship design system. Anyone have more substantial awareness of Zaon to compare it with Traveller?
Chaos
June 19th, 2006, 04:47 PM
There used to be a preliminary version available for download, a long LONG time ago.
I gave up on Zaon when all they seem to be able to actually accomplish is fancy graphics and ambitious announcements.
I mean, fancy graphics are nice, and some of these graphics are absolutely cool, but when I look for an RPG, I want an RPG, not a bunch of freaking graphics.
... oh, yes, the game itself. It was not bad, IIRC; the premises underlying the universe were vastly different from Traveller, however - lots of handwavium technology, force fields, very fast FTL travel (to the tune of 100´s of parsec per day IIRC), FTL communications.
I gave up on Zaon when all they seem to be able to actually accomplish is fancy graphics and ambitious announcements.
I mean, fancy graphics are nice, and some of these graphics are absolutely cool, but when I look for an RPG, I want an RPG, not a bunch of freaking graphics.
... oh, yes, the game itself. It was not bad, IIRC; the premises underlying the universe were vastly different from Traveller, however - lots of handwavium technology, force fields, very fast FTL travel (to the tune of 100´s of parsec per day IIRC), FTL communications.
Zob10701
June 19th, 2006, 04:58 PM
As far as I'm concerned, the game doesn't actually exist. It's one big circle jerk.
Incidentally, this kind of ties in with a discussion going on in the "What do you HATE about CT" thread concerning game artwork.
Kinda funny. Traveller is a bit maligned for its (perceived to be) crappy art, yet is a fantastic sci-fi RPG with an almost thirty-year history and ZAON has fantastic artwork, yet is just a vaporgame.
Oh, the humaniti!
Incidentally, this kind of ties in with a discussion going on in the "What do you HATE about CT" thread concerning game artwork.
Kinda funny. Traveller is a bit maligned for its (perceived to be) crappy art, yet is a fantastic sci-fi RPG with an almost thirty-year history and ZAON has fantastic artwork, yet is just a vaporgame.
Oh, the humaniti!
Malenfant
June 19th, 2006, 05:31 PM
Well it should be out eventually, they're just not in a particular rush. I doubt that they've spent all this time on it just to have it disappear in a puff of smoke.
Personally I'm looking forward to Zaon's release, sounds like it'll be an interesting setting.
Personally I'm looking forward to Zaon's release, sounds like it'll be an interesting setting.
robject
June 19th, 2006, 10:07 PM
If their game is anywhere as interesting as their graphics, I think it'll sell. I do note that their ship performance tends to look more like Star Wars than Traveller for sure, quite space opera, and their "critters with big guns" looks sort of 40K. Certainly the graphics are super-cool.
I think they could outdo Star Wars for a Star Wars-like setting.
I think they could outdo Star Wars for a Star Wars-like setting.
Chaos
June 22nd, 2006, 05:27 AM
Sorry, but I´ve played computer games for too long to actually expect anything substantial just from seeing pretty pictures.
Okay, the situation for an RPG is different, but not *that* different.
Okay, the situation for an RPG is different, but not *that* different.
tjoneslo
June 22nd, 2006, 07:49 AM
I've spend some time reading through their Playtest Versions, and the Game rule discssions. I'd say they are having the same problems as most new game designers (like my self). They get too focused on some narrow, or minor, aspect of the game and spend a few days or weeks designing the hell out of it. Once that gets finished, the whole process stops until the find the next rule or setting bit to work though.
I would not expect to see Zaon until one or more of the lead designers decides their next meal depends upon Zaon getting published.
I would not expect to see Zaon until one or more of the lead designers decides their next meal depends upon Zaon getting published.
Scarecrow
June 22nd, 2006, 06:29 PM
I remember downloading the RPG from their site - or some sort of free demo version and the character sheet alone made me scream like a girl. The setting and background was pretty standard space opera stuff aswell. Zaon is all about the pretty pictures really and that's it. Which, as many have said before me, is not nearly enough. I'm all for pretty pictures but they're supposed to compliment and accompany a decent game, not vice versa. Zaon actually asked me to do some art for them in the early days but I politely declined, knowing how utterly unreliable I am.
Crow
Crow
robject
June 22nd, 2006, 06:44 PM
I was wondering about that pretty character sheet. Since I don't know graphic design from a hole in the ground, all I could see was that they had interesting asymmetric groupings in a nice rosette. Which I thought was pretty cool. Until you hinted at it, I didn't know that this might be considered Bad Design.
Scarecrow
June 23rd, 2006, 04:05 AM
I remember liking the whole rosette layout it was just that it all looked so horrifically complicated and detailed!
I don't want to beat on the Zaon guys. They're a decent bunch of guys and they seem to be having a lot of fun. But the project does seem to be more about the pictures than the game.
Crow
I don't want to beat on the Zaon guys. They're a decent bunch of guys and they seem to be having a lot of fun. But the project does seem to be more about the pictures than the game.
Crow
Roger Calver
September 29th, 2006, 03:33 PM
I was involved with Zaon back in the very early stages of its design.
In those early days there was a lot of active playtesters getting involved and rewites and updates very regular.
The problems from not just my POV but a lot of the older playtesters was that the writer would ask us to come up with new ideas and then he would agree with them, make a new update and then change everything that we had been working on.
This just made the whole thing go round and round in circles until a large part of us walked out and left.
I do hope he gets its sorted in the end but I have no real reason to think that it will come out.
In those early days there was a lot of active playtesters getting involved and rewites and updates very regular.
The problems from not just my POV but a lot of the older playtesters was that the writer would ask us to come up with new ideas and then he would agree with them, make a new update and then change everything that we had been working on.
This just made the whole thing go round and round in circles until a large part of us walked out and left.
I do hope he gets its sorted in the end but I have no real reason to think that it will come out.
Vargas
September 29th, 2006, 04:38 PM
I have a copy squirrled away of the draft version they released several years ago. If I remmeber aright, the game system itself was pretty meh. Artwork was definitely killer though.
aramis
October 2nd, 2006, 05:12 AM
In a word, poorly.
Great renders. Passable rules, barely.
Great renders. Passable rules, barely.
robject
April 16th, 2008, 09:54 AM
Thread Resurrect
I wandered over to their site recently, and found things quieter but still active. Anyone here with the inside track on how they're doing?
I noted that their primary aim and strength is graphics, so their design rules (for instance) are heavily influenced in the resulting Look and Feel. Which isn't a bad thing.
But, I'm wondering if their schedule has firmed up any.
I wandered over to their site recently, and found things quieter but still active. Anyone here with the inside track on how they're doing?
I noted that their primary aim and strength is graphics, so their design rules (for instance) are heavily influenced in the resulting Look and Feel. Which isn't a bad thing.
But, I'm wondering if their schedule has firmed up any.
casquilho
April 16th, 2008, 10:36 AM
Well it should be out eventually, they're just not in a particular rush. I doubt that they've spent all this time on it just to have it disappear in a puff of smoke.
Personally I'm looking forward to Zaon's release, sounds like it'll be an interesting setting. Not to offend any one person, but how long has they been saying their working on a game? How long have they been posting cool art and just art? How long have they talked and talked and talked?
I am sorry but they are pure vapor as far as I can see. Once it goes more then a decade it is not real in my mind. I first heard about them in 1998 or so. And they were selling posters then. What are they selling today?
They will be real when they release a real RPG and until then they are a vapor company to me.
Daniel
Personally I'm looking forward to Zaon's release, sounds like it'll be an interesting setting. Not to offend any one person, but how long has they been saying their working on a game? How long have they been posting cool art and just art? How long have they talked and talked and talked?
I am sorry but they are pure vapor as far as I can see. Once it goes more then a decade it is not real in my mind. I first heard about them in 1998 or so. And they were selling posters then. What are they selling today?
They will be real when they release a real RPG and until then they are a vapor company to me.
Daniel
robject
April 16th, 2008, 11:03 AM
Not to offend any one person, but how long has they been saying their working on a game?
Not as long as Marc's been working on T5...
Not as long as Marc's been working on T5...
AndrewR
April 16th, 2008, 01:22 PM
I was also very peripherally involved in the discussions on their forums years ago. Heck, I suggested a variant of 2300AD's Stutterwarp to them as their FTL drive, which they took up, modified and named after me!
However I haven't checked on them in a long time. I left their community when they started making decisions on dice mechanics that I didn't agree with. Something about massive d6 dicepools, where only 6's were considered successes kinda bothered me. They were also struggling with power-gaming issues, and their cultures seemed kinda flat and monolithic.
Damn nice artwork, tho...
However I haven't checked on them in a long time. I left their community when they started making decisions on dice mechanics that I didn't agree with. Something about massive d6 dicepools, where only 6's were considered successes kinda bothered me. They were also struggling with power-gaming issues, and their cultures seemed kinda flat and monolithic.
Damn nice artwork, tho...
kafka47
April 16th, 2008, 01:55 PM
Here is a question...why doesn't Marc approach them for their starship drawings and offer to slap the Traveller rules on top? Zaon could stand for some publicity (if it ever does get released) and Traveller gets the cool art. An appropiate royality and recognition of each contribution like what Marc did with HDI & the Fading Suns' deckplans would be in order.
Heck, I would even suggest the same to Mongoose but it looks like they have High Guard already sewn up with their own artists and writers. So, we can hope for T5 print version...
Heck, I would even suggest the same to Mongoose but it looks like they have High Guard already sewn up with their own artists and writers. So, we can hope for T5 print version...
casquilho
April 16th, 2008, 02:10 PM
Not as long as Marc's been working on T5... Another game I think of as Vapor until it shows up. Too many dates given etc for me to believe until I can buy it. ;)
Daniel
Daniel
robject
April 16th, 2008, 04:39 PM
Here is a question...why doesn't Marc approach them for their starship drawings and offer to slap the Traveller rules on top?
They actually have wedded their ship design concepts to their artwork, so it would be a losing scenario for them: they'd end up with a ship design system that lacks the artistic scope they want theirs to have. Maybe it's a case of Traveller being too functional (their concepts seem to have sufficient detail). Dunno.
They actually have wedded their ship design concepts to their artwork, so it would be a losing scenario for them: they'd end up with a ship design system that lacks the artistic scope they want theirs to have. Maybe it's a case of Traveller being too functional (their concepts seem to have sufficient detail). Dunno.
Supplement Four
April 16th, 2008, 05:37 PM
All I've seen is the Zaon website.
Never heard of it until now. But, damn, it does look like a cool MFing game, doesn't it?
Never heard of it until now. But, damn, it does look like a cool MFing game, doesn't it?
Rhialto the Marvelous
April 16th, 2008, 07:10 PM
Zaon is one those games whose design vision is above all, well, visual. There's this urban fantasy RPG, designed by a graphic artist a few years ago, that had the same issue: gorgeous images, bleh rules. I only know of one example that looks like a success: Artesia. Beautiful art and (say the Fuzion boyz) great implementation of Fuzion.
It'd be best if the Zaon people handed the rules over to an actual game designer, with the brief that he wrap the new rules around the existing images. But by now they're probably far too invested in the project to let go.
It'd be best if the Zaon people handed the rules over to an actual game designer, with the brief that he wrap the new rules around the existing images. But by now they're probably far too invested in the project to let go.
Bishop Odo
April 16th, 2008, 09:46 PM
I always thought it was an art school or resume project, one, that refuse to die. Everyone has their strengths and weakness; I think we see their strength in the art and the short coming in other areas. They might be shopping the IP around, who know, I wish them luck. It would be nice to get another SF game in system, all the more to steal ideas and art from.
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